Tired of supersteels

tony281sc2

tony281sc2

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Feb 13, 2017
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I just wanted to share my recent annoying experience with some 20CV, and basically just vent.
At first for me, it was like a status symbol to have “M390” or “20CV” on the blade. Like I was driving a Cadillac. 🙄 right.
Anyway, I didn’t give it much thought when using some of my beater knives in these steels, because I would use my KO worksharp belt sharpener and be done in a few minutes.
But lately I’ve been trying to get better at freehand (sort of) and I’ve been using a Sharpmaker. It’s been going great with weekly or bi-weekly touch ups on my ZT 0566 (Elmax), Spyderco PM2 (S30V) and a griptilian (154CM).
Then recently, my dad came to me with his 0357 (20cv) I gave him as a gift last year and asked me to sharpen it. No big deal I thought.
Boy was I wrong, even with the diamonds it was MUCH more difficult to sharpen than the previously mentioned steels.
So I guess the point I’m trying to make is, why is everyone still so crazy about these super steels? If it’s going to be a safe queen, I guess it brings about a certain “bragging right”, but it doesn’t really matter. And those of us who are going to use a specific knife (and have to resharpen it eventually) wouldn’t you rather have S30V, S35VN, S45VN, Elmax etc? I know I would rather give up a slight advantage in edge retention, to have something I can sharpen myself, much more easily.
Ok, rant over lol
TLDR: supersteels can be super annoying if your sharpening skills can’t keep up.
Edit: yes I know S35VN and the others are still super steels, but they get so easily overlooked nowadays.
 
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I suspect most people here don't actually use their expensive knives all that hard, if at all. If they did you wouldn't see the silly stories in which they split a cord of aged hickory, chopped up a cinder block, and found their m390 marvel was still "shaving sharp". People who actually work with their knives for a living expect to sharpen them-- perhaps daily or more.

We don't stack knives because we need them, but because we like them. And that's okay. For myself, for knives I expect to use, I prefer mid grade steels like Aus10, s35, A2 or cpm154. I sharpen my knife every day after use. I have not noticed any meaningful performance difference between high end supersteel and the m8d grade steels I prefer.
 
I don't have any particular difficulty sharpening 20CV with my setup, I just find that I really don't need the additional edge retention in my day-to-day. Honestly, I'm very happy with Nitro V, CPM154 and 14c28n, which tend to be relatively inexpensive, hold an edge plenty well enough for my purposes and sharpen up extremely quickly and easily. I have a fair amount of M390 and 20CV and such in my collection, but not really because I seek it out now, just because it ends up being the steel offered on knives that I like the other features of. I would be just as happy with a 'lesser' steel, especially if it saved me a bit of money.
 
It's funny to see this posted today as I had a similar experience last night. If I'm just touching an edge up and maintaining the edge profile that it has then having something with crazy wear resistance is fine. In fact I was very surprised when I touched up my S110v Para2 on my Sharpmaker a couple weeks ago and it was back to popping hairs in under 10 minutes with the standard ceramic stones. But when it comes to reprofiling... Man... Some of these steels are just no fun. It's not a hard task to do as I use a KME with diamond stones but the time that it takes to put say a 17 degree per side edge on a knife with a factory sharpening job just blows my mind every time I do it. If I only had like 2 knives then it wouldn't be so bad, but if I were to reprofile all of my knives I'd spend a huge portion of my free time just grinding away steel.

This made me think over the past few days that I want to try edcing a knife that is as easy to sharpen as possible and see how that goes and what I think about carrying a knife that I have to sharpen more often, but each sharpening is much less work. I'm currently looking for a knife with a wharncliffe/sheepsfoot blade (the easiest blade shape to sharpen for me) in a super easy to sharpen steel. I was thinking about that new Old Hickory slipjoint in 1075, yet I know that I'll have a much better chance of carrying it everyday if it has a pocket clip and easy to use lock.
 
I use a Dia-Sharp Extra Coarse 220 grit for reprofiling or when my blades (rarely) get dull -- works great. It takes forever on finer hones when working with super steels. Geometry also makes a difference. My Spyderco Mule in 20CV with its thin blade profile tsakes only a few swipes on a 600 grit (DMT red) to come back to hair-popping sharp.
 
I’m not picky at this point. I buy knives that I find attractive, and that fit within my budget. I end up using the ones I like most. Edge geometry is a bigger concern for me at this point, and thickness behind the edge. It’s easy enough to touch-up whatever little glint might occasionally crop up from hard use, regardless of steel type.
 
LimpCroissant said:
It's funny to see this posted today as I had a similar experience last night. If I'm just touching an edge up and maintaining the edge profile that it has then having something with crazy wear resistance is fine. In fact I was very surprised when I touched up my S110v Para2 on my Sharpmaker a couple weeks ago and it was back to popping hairs in under 10 minutes with the standard ceramic stones. But when it comes to reprofiling... Man... Some of these steels are just no fun. It's not a hard task to do as I use a KME with diamond stones but the time that it takes to put say a 17 degree per side edge on a knife with a factory sharpening job just blows my mind every time I do it. If I only had like 2 knives then it wouldn't be so bad, but if I were to reprofile all of my knives I'd spend a huge portion of my free time just grinding away steel.

This made me think over the past few days that I want to try edcing a knife that is as easy to sharpen as possible and see how that goes and what I think about carrying a knife that I have to sharpen more often, but each sharpening is much less work. I'm currently looking for a knife with a wharncliffe/sheepsfoot blade (the easiest blade shape to sharpen for me) in a super easy to sharpen steel. I was thinking about that new Old Hickory slipjoint in 1075, yet I know that I'll have a much better chance of carrying it everyday if it has a pocket clip and easy to use lock.
Click to expand...

wharn with easy to sharpen steel which is still good all around? - easy...
get a kershaw leek in 14c28n
(it's my most often carried edc)
 
I like supersteels, and carry and use them regularly. And sharpen them as needed. Not so bad with the right abrasives and a little skill for using them.

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I'm definitely not a fan of daily touch ups, would rather sharpen on a less frequent basis.
 
Your mileage may vary depending on how you use your knives and what materials you’re cutting and how well you can sharpen.

I have three Buck knives in 20cv and they are excellent. One is my edc at work knife that gets some hard use in harsh environments cutting dirty, tough materials. It holds an edge for a long time but I don’t let it get real dull before touching the blade up usually about once a week sometimes two weeks depending on the amount of use. I use a Worksharp diamond hand sharpener and it doesn’t take long to get a good sharp micro toothy edge that works best for my usage. I don’t like mirror polished edges as they seem to lose the fine edge quicker than a toothy edge plus it takes longer to get a polished edge.

If you let 20cv get real dull before sharpening it can take awhile to get a good sharp edge. Wear resistance and hardness is the reason why 20cv takes more time to sharpen but it’s also the reason why it stays sharp longer if it isn’t being raked across hard stuff like a rusty pipe or a ceramic plate.

I don’t mind taking a few more minutes to sharpen when I can go 50% more than other super steels. I can do it at my leisure after the work is done, I don’t like stopping in the middle of a project to sharpen.
 
I've numerous "super steel" knives including M390/20CV I don't find any particularly hard to sharpen with diamond/ceramic stones.

Although I prefer simpler steels generally such as 80crv2, 5160, 1055-80, 14c28n, Aeb-L etc.... In fixed blades and am quite happy with 14c28n in a folder.

I value toughness with adequate edge retention over anything else on all my knives, with most of the modern stainless steels being somewhat on the more "delicate" side.
 
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I'm with you !!
I prefer high carbon steels or easier to maintain h1, lc200, s30.
The chipping on some of the super steels drive me crazy.

Also i dont see a huge difference in performance, apart from being more time consuming to sharpen.
 
Nope it's the tough carbides in many super steels etc... I've numerous kitchen knives in aogami super, blue 2, white 1 and 2 some with hardness into the mid 60's, they are my easiest knives to get sharp. Most of my "simple steel" knives are of similar hrc to my "super steel" knives none except my SAKs are in the mid 50's.

Even my Roselli UHC which I think someone on one of the forums had tested and came out at 65.5 or something are a joy and easy to sharpen. Not too many "super steels" are run this hard.
 
Locutus D'Borg said:
So, using this logic, the softer the steel, the better because those steels are easiest to sharpen. Maybe someone will make a blade out of lead because you can strop it on a paper towel. I'll stick with 20CV, CPM 154, etc.
Click to expand...
If we're going to be hyperbolic about that logic we can go the opposite way, why settle for those steels when you could get a blade made of glass? It's VASTLY harder than steel, takes a MUCH finer edge and will practically never need to be resharpened.
 
tony281sc2 said:
I just wanted to share my recent annoying experience with some 20CV, and basically just vent.
At first for me, it was like a status symbol to have “M390” or “20CV” on the blade. Like I was driving a Cadillac. 🙄 right.
Anyway, I didn’t give it much thought when using some of my beater knives in these steels, because I would use my KO worksharp belt sharpener and be done in a few minutes.
But lately I’ve been trying to get better at freehand (sort of) and I’ve been using a Sharpmaker. It’s been going great with weekly or bi-weekly touch ups on my ZT 0566 (Elmax), Spyderco PM2 (S30V) and a griptilian (154CM).
Then recently, my dad came to me with his 0357 (20cv) I gave him as a gift last year and asked me to sharpen it. No big deal I thought.
Boy was I wrong, even with the diamonds it was MUCH more difficult to sharpen than the previously mentioned steels.
So I guess the point I’m trying to make is, why is everyone still so crazy about these super steels? If it’s going to be a safe queen, I guess it brings about a certain “bragging right”, but it doesn’t really matter. And those of us who are going to use a specific knife (and have to resharpen it eventually) wouldn’t you rather have S30V, S35VN, S45VN, Elmax etc? I know I would rather give up a slight advantage in edge retention, to have something I can sharpen myself, much more easily.
Ok, rant over lol
TLDR: supersteels can be super annoying if your sharpening skills can’t keep up.
Edit: yes I know S35VN and the others are still super steels, but they get so easily overlooked nowadays.
Click to expand...
I have sharpened many different steels and many different knives from SK75C and 1095 carbon steels to all the way up to Maxamet. When you have the right abrasive it does not matter which steel you are sharpening. The problem you encountered was probably had something to do with knife geometry. Knives with thick edges take forever to sharpen regardless the steel used to make them.
 
If you can't figure out how to put an edge on them: just stay away.
Lots of us like the newer steels, and have the sharpening stuff figured out.
Back in the day: Schrade knives were known for being very "soft", Easy to sharpen... and easier to dull!
 
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