Titanium carbo-nitride coating

GatorFlash1

GatorFlash1

Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
3,189
It seems that some of the lower priced knives using lesser steel in their construction use this type of coating. The Kershaw Nura 3.5 comes to mind.

What exactly is it and how does it work and if it is a good thing why don't all less expensive knives use it?

I'm hoping to hear from some of our resident steel geniuses on this. Tanks!
 
It's not just a fancy name nor is it paint. It's a common PVD tool coating. Has a high 80s RC and a low coefficient of friction.
 
It won't have an appreciable effect on stainless steel that I can see. It would probably protect carbon steel from rust.
 
Copied from a google search-
Titanium CarboNitride (TiCN) coating is a process that infuses a very thin (.0001”-.0002”) layer of TiCN into the surface of high speed steel tools. The coating is extremely hard and “slippery”. Because of these characteristics, it offers better surface finishes and at least twice the tool life of uncoated high speed steel.

I have many milling cutters with TiCN coating. It's real and really works in that application. For knives, I don't know, it seems like they would sharpen the knife after coating which would kind of defeat the purpose.
 
My BassPro 110 has a CPM-154 blade with some kind of shiny, very hard grey-ish coating. Chuck Buck was there at the store opening in Calgary in 2009 (he autographed my humble 110 in 420HC, which I happened to be packing that day) and showed me that model (which I later bought). I don't remember exactly what Chuck said the coating was -- but probably TiCN or something very similar. It is very smooth, doesn't gunk up easily and when it does is easily cleaned. Very nice to have, probably adds some corrosion protection though that's hardly necessary. I don't think Buck offers it any more.
 
Glenn Goodlett said:
Copied from a google search-
Titanium CarboNitride (TiCN) coating is a process that infuses a very thin (.0001”-.0002”) layer of TiCN into the surface of high speed steel tools. The coating is extremely hard and “slippery”. Because of these characteristics, it offers better surface finishes and at least twice the tool life of uncoated high speed steel.

I have many milling cutters with TiCN coating. It's real and really works in that application. For knives, I don't know, it seems like they would sharpen the knife after coating which would kind of defeat the purpose.
Click to expand...


Thanks, that's the info I was looking for. That is a very very thin layer and hard and slippery sounds good for a knife. I'm surprised TiCN it is not used more often unless it detracts from the appearance of the blade. I wonder if Gayle Bradley thought about this when he designed my EDC BG1 with M4 high speed tool steel?
 
Glenn Goodlett said:
I have many milling cutters with TiCN coating. It's real and really works in that application. For knives, I don't know, it seems like they would sharpen the knife after coating which would kind of defeat the purpose.
Click to expand...
I totally agree.
It would be interesting to do a controled comparison between a control blade in say, stone washed and one in finely ground with TiCN and one more in finely ground with DLC.
Cutting through many yards of double wall cardboard or other stout material that has enough friction on the sides of the blade to cause significant drag.
In other words stropping arm hair shavers need not apply
 
Great idea, I'd like to see a cutting test. I'm still wondering why it seems to be used as a coating in the less expensive folders and not on the higher end knives. I would think it would be great on a good field dressing fixed blade like my Spyderco Bill Moran fixed blade. And also on my EDC Gayle Bradley #1 which has some corrosion issues with the M4 blade. It can't cost much to put this coating on or you wouldn't find it on the less expensive knives.
 
in this video he compares common coatings (sorry, it doesn't explicitly include TiCN, I thought it did) TiCN should be even better if it's done properly...
 
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View attachment 970142 Back in the late ‘90’s, Buck offered an Ion Fusion series of coated blades. They used the term BuckCote to describe the PVD coatings. 3 different coatings were used on blades that were chisel sharpened after the coatings were applied. This resulted in a very acute edge on which the coating sat proud. The softer blade wore away in preference to the coat making the blade self sharpening.
The softest coat was Titanium Nitride (TiN) which had an HRC of 82 and was dark Gold in color. The next hardest coat was Zirconium Nitride (ZrN) which had an HRC of 85 and was Champagne Gold in color. The Titanium CarboNitride (TiCN) was next at 88 HRC and was slightly purple in color. Very few of these made it into circulation. The hardest coat was Titanium Aluminum Nitride (TiAlN) at 92 HRC and was charcoal in color.
In the photo 3 single bevel blades in TiN, ZrN, and TiAlN followed by a double bevel blade in TDLC (Tungsten Diamond Like Carbon). The TDLC is Tungsten Carbide at 72 HRC. The hardness of TDLC is not too important in this case because it is not exposed on the micro edge.
 
Great pics tiguy. I still can't figure out how to copy my images from imgur to the forum. I copy them from my PC to imgur and then can only get a link to post on Blade Forums. Any suggestions? I kow this is off topic but your pictures are so good and I'd like to know how you do it. Thanks.
 
I take pictures on the kitchen table with my iPad Pro 12.9 hand held. My iPhone has a better camera, but it is easier to compose on a large screen. The lighting is goofy, a single overhead fixture. I am too lazy to get out the light booth.
Once a photo is in my onboard iPad library, I go to the Image Size app and move the photo to the app (it then goes back to the library automatically). Then in the post, I hit Upload a File, pull up the library, pick the Image Sized photo and post it in the thread all from my iPad. No hosting site, no desktop computer.
 
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I have a 18 year old tini coated sog flash. It's held up awesome and I used that knife exclisivley for over 2 yrs before I really got I to knives

Seems to hold up better than dlc in a Spyderco I have
 
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