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T

Tar18

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Oct 3, 2012
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Hi folks. I am not sure if I can ask this type of question or not but if I cannot, I am sorry.
I would like to get a set of kitchen knives for my sister for her upcoming birthday. She really needs a new set because after trying to sharpen the knives she has is a you know what. Anyway I have been looking around and found a couple but not sure if they would work out oK. I am on a budget and also live in Canada so have been looking not only through the knife magazines but Amazon.ca. I found a couple but again not sure and would really appreciate some feedback from you folks. The first is by Ontario Knife Co. and they have a set of King Cutlery (10 pieces) kitchen set with a wood block with it says 420 steel, and the second one that I found is a Ross Henery Pro knives 6 pieces with stand.
Both of these sets are within my budget, at least in Canadian dollars, so any comments would be appreciated.
I am also open to suggestions as to what I might get for her. I have a bit of time as her birthday is not until the 1st of June.
Thanks
Regards
Tar :)
 
well to be perfectly honest unless the knives she has are serrated or just so poor that an edge simply wont take I don't see buying her new knives will solve the problem. Buying higher end kitchen knives doesn't mean they will be any easier to sharpen. In many cases it usually means the opposite as higher end knives use better steels and many times these steels are harder to sharpen. The real benefit to buying her new cutlery will be that they will be extremely sharp all ready straight out of the box and should be maintained to keep them that way. If she doesn't, in a year they can be just as worthless as the ones she currently has.

420 is going to take an edge but it wont hold it very long. Especially using a cutting board made of glass or cutting on a ceramic plate. The benefit though to the 420 is that getting an edge back on them is relatively easy. No matter what set you decide to get her the first thing that should be done is to take the standard sharpening steel that comes with it and melt it down so it can never destroy another knife again. I would simply get a good ceramic rod and learn how to freehand sharpen. Big bulky expensive sharpeners are not necessary and electronic sharpeners should be avoided as well. As for the knives I think getting something with a substantial handle with either a non slip grip or a handle with enough facets to lock in your grip is essential. Beware of knives like the Wustoff ikon series. They look really elegant but the grip leaves things to be desired for food prep. I cant comment on the actual knives you are asking about. But I generally find very little difference in kitchen knife sets under $200. It will mostly come to personal preference. I look for forged knives and if they list the actual steel used that's a good thing.
 
Where in Canada are you?

Now opinion follows. One good chef knife beats a whole block of knives that may get used once a year or never. Also if she doesn't have the temperament to take care of a good knife or the skill to use it just get her a bubble pack of the different coloured knives from Costco.
 
Thanks Purpledc for your comments. Her old set was not a good one and they were horrible to use. I did get them sharp but she need a better set. I will keep them nice an sharp for her and I know that the better the steel the better the knife. I agree with you the most folks do not even know what a steel is, so yes one will not be in her set. I have a Lansky set with 5 stones as well the good old SM. I am in the process to start to learn freehand.
Also thanks for mentioning about the grips and also about the 420 steel.
Regards
Tar :)
 
Thanks Danke for the comment. I live Calabogie, Ontario which is about an hour and a half west of Ottawa.
She does have the skills and knows how to look after a good knife except she just did not have a good set of knives. She cooks a lot so needs a good knife. I see your point of one good chef's knife will be needed I suppose most of the time. I have given her a folder that she keeps in her purse and looks after that one just great.
Thanks for the comment
Regards
Tar :)
 
I have a set of Chicago Cutlery Walnut Traditions that have performed quite well for XX years. I've augmented the set with a few walnut handled knives from Case that I like even better. None were very expensive. They take a good edge, hold it well, and are easy to sharpen. The dishwasher WILL ruin the handles, as my sister in law demonstrated. The Japanese kitchen knives I've demoed at the chef's supply house and Williams Sonoma have been fantastic, but not enough to make me pull out my wallet. Also check out Victorinox and Spyderco for mid priced alternatives.

Instead of buying a set, consider just a parer, a 5-6" boner and a 8" chef's or santuko. Those three get 90% of my use. My wife's favorite knife in the kitchen is a Wustof steak knife. We have a set of six, so she's always grabbing a different one. It's a challenge keeping them all sharp.
 
What is your budget like? To me a whole set of kitchen knives is usually a waste of money. An 8" chefs knife and a paring knife should be sufficient for most people. If you chop bones a lot, then add a meat cleaver. Buy knives with good steel if by any chance possible. Shun or Torjiro could be entry-level brands for you to consider.
 
Thanks to all that gave me some good opinions and advice. The more I think about it, I think, as was pointed out that 3 or 4 good knives are better than a whole case of them. As was pointed out the parer, 5-6 inch boner and a 8" chef would all that would be needed.
Thanks again and I will update
Regards
Tar :)
 
A 5-6 inch boner will not get you far in life. :(

But anyways, I am not a chef. I have chef buddies, but I don't care what knives they use because I am not a chef. I am not a cook per se either. My kitchen chores consist of chopping stuff up to put into the crock pot, slicing last nights steak to go into this morning's eggs, making veggies into smaller chunks of veggies etc. So now with my complete lack of credentials established, here we go.

What I have found to be easy to use, effective, and simple to maintain is Cold Steel's discontinued line of kitchen knives.

I found these over at One Stop Knife Shop and picked some up. http://www.onestopknifeshop.com/store/cold-steel-kitchen-knives.html

These were very inexpensive, very sharp from the factory, and very easy to use and maintain. I gave a couple away to some friends and they've been impressed as well. Oh, one of the folks I gave one to was a chef, FWIW. He was impressed, but I don't care... because I'm not a chef.

At any rate, 1SKS (that link there) has a set of these listed if you want a set, or you can put together the set of your choice with the 8" Chef knife, parer, and the (ahem) aforementioned 5 inch boner if you so desire.

Give these a look. For the money, you can put together a decent set.
 
OK so I would look for Cold Steel Commercial, Spyderco, and Shun; listed lowest to highest price. One place out on the West side of the country has all in stock (for where to buy you need to ask in the Good, Bad, & Ugly since here we can only discuss official listed sponsors). I would also say so a google search for chef knives Ontario because I see a place in Ottawa with some nice Japanese stuff but in the $200 and up range though.
 
So... i looked at the 2 sets you mentioned, and appears your budget is right around $100 cad

The Ontario is listed as "420", and while the Ross Henry isn't listed, others by them are and it appears they use 5cr15mov. Based on that I would opt for the Ross Henry because 5cr15mov is more akin to a Chinese version of 420mov (similar to 420hc), which will hold an edge much better then regular 420. One can only assume if ontario had used 420hc they would have mentioned it, so "420" alone is likely 420j2 at best, great stainless properties, but edge holding will be nill.

I also saw what else you can get in that price range and found you can buy a single vg10 core stainless Damascus 8" chef's knife (by sedge, tuo, or komosoto), or a chef/paring combo for about $150. I just don't know anything about any of those brands though, just saying.

A few I would consider if I were in your situation, if the $100 cad budget is really firm, a Tramontina century 3 piece set, made in brazil, will give your 3 basics; chef, paring, utility. Steel not listed but "German high chromium/molybednum stainless" from Tram is 1.4116, one of the most common budget friendly yet decent steels found in many lower end kitchen knives by decent well reputable kitchen knife companies.
It is just the German version of 420mov, but the addes carbon, moly, and vanadium, make it Much better then "420" regular or 420j2 for holding an edge, w/ 25 yr warranty.
And Tram does a pretty good job with their heat treats, maybe a touch on the soft side.

$130 for Henckels twin pollux 3 piece set with their proprietary Friodur "ice hardened" steel would be a better option for the basic 3 if you could stretch the budget just a bit. Basically a similar/same proprietary steel, but with a great proprietary heat treat with Cryo quench for improved hardness and edge stability. If your budget is tight, depending on how so, these would be two of the best options IMO.
A better steel then your typical cheap store brands and discount off brands, with a decent heat treat from reputable companies, and the 3 basic knives covered.

If you really want to go for a full set though
$140 for a Henckels fine edge pro 7 piece set. Henckles uses basic 1.4116 steel on their lower end stuff also, not their proprietary stuff.
$160 for a Henckels statement 15 piece set.
Both come with a honing steel to help keep them sharp longer.
(Full Pro V 13 piece set is $180)
All decent sets for regular old kitchen use.

Or ideally, in at right about $200 (usd) can get you a 7 piece set w/ block direct from Buck Knives website with their bos treated 420hc, or a 10 piece Henckles gourmet Friodur set from a certain "smart" Canadian online "kitchen" store.
Outside of spending more on more high end stuff, For a standard household kitchen set doing standard food prep chores, with proper care, these could easily be lifelong sets.
 
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Wow thanks folks. Now that gives me lots to think about and look at. Now what to do? I have some time so I will look at all the suggestions and then try and make a decision.
Thanks again for all the help.
I will let everyone know what I decided.
Regards
Tar :)
 
T Tar18 yeah, most low-low, low end stuff, made in China, is 3cr13/(420j2) type steels.
Maybe stamp the name of a famous TV chef on it, mass produce and overprice it.
The vast majority of "Surgical Steel" or "Stainless steel" stamps found in big box stores for budget prices are this grade of steel.

A perfect example is Royal Doultan Gordan Ramsey knives... 3cr13 "high carbon" stainless steel... average consumer has no idea what that means, but eat up "Gordan Ramsey" hook line and sinker.
-technically, in the steel industry, anything 0.3% carbon or higher is "high carbon".
4116 is 0.45-.55%, 420hc is 0.46%, then you get to 440a, sandvick 12c/13c/14c's and Aeb-l above 0.60%, or 440c-154cm-vg10 and other higher end steels all pushing over 1%; carbon being the main key ingredient in hardening iron to form steel and holding its edge on a knife...

5cr17mov is typically your better "low grade" china stuff, all but identical to german 1.4116 (4116) which is the most common used basic stainless steel for most decent basic kitchen knife sets made by more reputable and well known brands, and some of it's actually decent stuff, but without knowing an actual manufacturer or which factory mass produced them, you are relying on questionable heat treatments from unknown manufacturers. Could run soft, or hard and brittle. At least with a Henckels or Tramontina, large well known brands who have been around for decades, and who back up their warranties, you can have more upfront faith in their quality of heat treatment and final fit and finish being more consistent.
*(If you do happen get a bad batch you can rest assured they will honor their warranties and replace them, rather then dealing with a Chinese company's overseas Customer service dept.)

And if you can spring the extra funds for a:
Buck - Bos/420hc or a Henckels - Friodur set,
you know rest assured you are getting a pretty consistant product that is pretty much the best quality basic stainless steel available for a basic level kitchen knife set that doesn't break the bank.
Be hard pressed finding anything better for a full set in that $200 price range that has reliable quality, consistency, and customer service.
Definitely nice enough sets for everyday folks and their every day needs for years and years to come with good maintenance.

Add a honing steel for in between uses, and a fine ceramic sharpening rod for occasional touchups will stretch them a good way between needed sharpenings.
 
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Just did the conversion, so it would seem that $200 U.S. to Canadian is closer to $275, so that puts the Buck set well out of budget. That $250-300 range will open up to a whole new market including basic hammer forged sets and what have you. We even won't go there when $200 cad for Friodur Henckels would already all but double your budget of closer to $100.
 
Another to consider, seen you can get a Boker set for $138; 4 basic knives, honing steel and block, made from 440a.
 
I have been going through all of the posts to see what was said and comments. All are great. I have just finished going through all of the sets and I think that I have finally made a decision, I think. !!!!! The two of them are the Ross Henery knife sets. One is the 3 knife set with 5cr15mov which comes in a box. The other set that I really like is the 5 piece set made in 5cr15mov with a bamboo block. This set of 5 has a couple of knives that would be useful to her because of what she does cook. Now the one with the 5 is a bit above budget but since she is special, I will swing that. I am just beginning to learn about the steels and hope that what is listed above will be able to keep a good edge for a while and give good service. I will explain to her how to look after them and I will keep them sharp.
if I could get some comments on the above two sets and the steels, would be helpful. I know that much more expensive knives are better but I am hoping that either of the two above would give good service.
Thanks again for all of the comments and the help.
Regards
Tar :)
 
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