Today's Utica Cutlery, still seems a mystery...

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

No matter what forum, or whatever search one does on whatever search engine... Utica's current offerings causes one to hit a brick wall when trying to find out more about their manufacture and such. Their boxes and their knife tang will have the markings of USA made.... But, I believe Colonial (the new one, not the old) gives the same USA impressions, while likely using some American law to just partially assemble, or something like that, and then claim the knife american, when in fact very little american anything may be involved in making them. I still have not heard from one single person on whether or not they've been able to verify that the Uticas are indeed being made here in the US (and I mean made here as GEC, Case, or Queen means it to mean). Does anyone here live close enough to the Utica factory to pay them a visit and research first hand? Does anyone know someone who works for Kutmaster/Utica and maybe get answers from them concerning these knives (like their catskill series). Some have said that kutmaster stopped producing such knives... but just because they may have, does not mean they simply did not start up again. The modern Colonial and the old Utica companies may really be making american made pocket knives.... but I am starting to believe that the lack of info may be based on them playing the made in USA game by only using the USA laws that may be permitting them claim to USA made, but with chinese made products.... The lack of info seems fishy.... ymmv. Thanks in advance for any info you may be able to share

 

[PocketKnifeJimmy]

These are the 6 Utica knives in my collection. I hand picked them, and though they are not cream of the pocket world crop, if indeed american made, they are a nice addition to my "American" made pocket knife collection (even if they are contracted out to, let's say, Bear & Son, they would still be American made). If they are not... they will become trade off material for me. YES, when it comes to Traditional Pocket Knives, I only want true USA made... not just partial assembly or just a few parts. To each his own... but that is what I seek for my collection

 

[thawk]

http://www.kutmaster.com/about/

http://www.kutmaster.com/productline/uticacutlery/buckstag.php

 

[IVANKERLEY]

Utica's current offerings causes one to hit a brick wall when trying to find out more about their manufacture and such. Their boxes and their knife tang will have the markings of USA made.... But, I believe Colonial (the new one, not the old) gives the same USA impressions, while likely using some American law to just partially assemble, or something like that, and then claim the knife american, when in fact very little american anything may be involved in making them.)

Care to elaborate on this, where ya might have seen this? if this were the case then why wouldnt Taylor, Rough Rider etc just stamp their knives USA and increase their profits? pocket knife collecting is a niche market, we care about stuff like this way more than a guy that just needs something that strikes his fancy and doesnt cost an arm and a leg, it would seem unlikely that Utica or the like would be going to great lengths to deceive, when they could likely make money selling obviously branded imported knives, rough rider/taylor seem to be doing alright with it
Such a grand deception for a brand that i have yet to see in a retail space and even among some collectors is obscure or less than desirable (not me love my old Utica Barlow)
BTW i contacted Kutmaster about a Bowie Style they had a while back and they emailed me back that that model was an import, i asked they answered, might try shooting them an email
Gene

 

[roninelh]

Hey pocketknifejimmy, thanks for putting these on my radar! The buckstag line looks alright, they seem like they would make good gift knives. I have been thinking the same thing lately about utica and colonial. I saw that colonial is producing a tl-29 as well as scout knives and wanted to buy one, but like you I like to buy American. I will probably check out a Utica buckstag. At that price, why not!

 

[cards94]

according to teh interwebz, some of the knives are made in the US and some are made in china. also found that the factory is still there, the lights are still on, but no clarity as to what goes on in there and if some of the knives are made there. the fog rolls in, the fog rolls out.

 

[roninelh]

It would also appear that Colonial is trying to produce knives in America again. After looking at their website (which is oddly full of spelling errors) they do appear to have a small section of knives that are made in the USA. It consists mostly of "collectible" patterns (cub scout deluxe)that they made years ago and the nicer stuff is priced in the $70 range. They also have a line of fixed blades coming out this fall that are tactical looking bushcraft knives priced at $200. Colonials USA made line falls under the banner "colonial knife brand".

 

[zippofan]

I have a couple and like 'em. They go on Scout trips with me and have held up well. Here's my smaller stockman:

and Big Pine premium stockman:

FnF are ok, nothing special, but I'd consider them users not collectors.

 

[Cutty73]

There may be a percentage that has to be done here? My understanding is that all pieces and parts can be manufactured else where and partially assembled here and the loop hole lets companies stamp them USA or Made in USA. I don't know this all to be a fact but I have heard it quite a few times concerning Buck and there lower level knives. The box or blister pack rather does say that it is partially made here or something to that effect but the knife it's self is stamped USA.

I've also heard that they have moved all of there production back here now however?

 

[cards94]

It would also appear that Colonial is trying to produce knives in America again. After looking at their website (which is oddly full of spelling errors) they do appear to have a small section of knives that are made in the USA. It consists mostly of "collectible" patterns (cub scout deluxe)that they made years ago and the nicer stuff is priced in the $70 range. They also have a line of fixed blades coming out this fall that are tactical looking bushcraft knives priced at $200. Colonials USA made line falls under the banner "colonial knife brand".

some of the cheaper models claim they are made in the US. i gave a look at some of the barlow knives that are in the $25 range, but not 100% sure they are really made here.

 

[IVANKERLEY]

china produced bucks are stamped as such, and on their packaging when its made in the USA its designated as such, ive also heard that they intend to move the offshore stuff back to the states
Gene

 

[roninelh]

china produced bucks are stamped as such, and on their packaging when its made in the USA its designated as such, ive also heard that they intend to move the offshore stuff back to the states
Gene

Yep, I live about 20 mins away from the Buck factory and I wasn't sure about some of Bucks cheaper models that retail between $25-$35 until my first visit. I talked to some people as well and they said buck does intend to bring more back to the USA. I kind of like that buck doesn't mark "china" on the MAIN blade of some multi-blade patterns made overseas, instead using the pen blade.

It does seem like I have a couple older (5-10 years ago) buck knives that are stamped "Buck USA" on the blade, but they are made in China. It's a good thing Buck is doing it right again. Buck has always been a trustworthy company and they let you know what your getting in terms of blade steel and company of origin.

 

[IVANKERLEY]

Yep, I live about 20 mins away from the Buck factory and I wasn't sure about some of Bucks cheaper models that retail between $25-$35 until my first visit. I talked to some people as well and they said buck does intend to bring more back to the USA. I kind of like that buck doesn't mark "china" on the MAIN blade of some multi-blade patterns made overseas, instead using the pen blade.

It does seem like I have a couple older (5-10 years ago) buck knives that are stamped "Buck USA" on the blade, but they are made in China. It's a good thing Buck is doing it right again. Buck has always been a trustworthy company and they let you know what your getting in terms of blade steel and company of origin.

you sure about that, cause that doesnt sound like something buck wouldve done, hope im right on this
Gene

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

you sure about that, cause that doesnt sound like something buck wouldve done, hope im right on this
Gene

^^That. Not just because it's seemingly unethical, but stamping U.S.A. on the blade might even be a violation of U.S. trade law, if the knife was actually made elsewhere. Some mfrs. slide around that, by 'assembling' knives in one country, and stamping them accordingly, but acquiring the individual parts for them elsewhere. Again, I just couldn't see a company with the reputation Buck has, doing such a thing.

I'd be curious to know which models these are, if they're stamped as made in U.S.A. If the model#s are known, it should be straightforward to determine if they were U.S.-made or imported. Buck seems to have delineated their product lines pretty clearly along those lines.


David

 

[sitflyer]

This subject did come up over in the Buck forum at one time, and IIRC, the Blades on these models were made right here, but some parts were outsourced, I will try to find that old thread...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...de-used-in-BuckLite-Max?p=9913887#post9913887

A new knife ,


On packing slip(?) it says "Assembled in USA from parts made in USA and other countries."

China might it be? I don't have enough to go on.

It is a BuckLite MAX. It says on the blade 'USA.' Along with 'Buck,' and '484 {and a funny C-like figure}.'
Three.

And how about the clip? I see no way to remove screws and take the clip off so pro'ly I'm just stuck with it.



Footnote:
Actually BuckLite Max Small, is the model. Normally $16 but I found it for 12. Very light. Am tickled pink. !
Total thumbs up. All three of them.

belt clip is made off shore along with the eyelets. No sheath comes with this one.. The handles, blade, rocker etc is all US

J Hubbard is the man in charge of quality control at Buck IIRC.

 

[cards94]

This subject did come up over in the Buck forum at one time, and IIRC, the Blades on these models were made right here, but some parts were outsourced, I will try to find that old thread...

blades are enough for me. afterall that's the part that does the cutting.

 

[Peregrin]

I retired from a large company that provides systems for many federal and state government construction projects. The public work contracts required products that are manufactured in the USA. To meet the requirement, the parts (that were manufactured primarily in China), had to be assembled in the USA. That met the contract requirements for acceptance as Made in USA.

I'm not saying that's what any knife manufacturer is doing, but it seems like they could use the same or similar rules to meet the labeling requirement.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

The FTC (Federal Trade Commission) seems to look at "Assembled in U.S.A." separately from "Made in U.S.A." By their explanation, in order for a product to be allowed to claim "Made in U.S.A." status, "all or virtually all" of the product's significant parts must also be of U.S. origin. They go into greater detail on their own web page, giving hypothetical scenarios that would or wouldn't be applicable. Their site is linked here, and I've quoted some of their explanations below.

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard

"Assembled in USA Claims

A product that includes foreign components may be called "Assembled in USA" without qualification when its principal assembly takes place in the U.S. and the assembly is substantial. For the "assembly" claim to be valid, the product’s last "substantial transformation" also should have occurred in the U.S. That’s why a "screwdriver" assembly in the U.S. of foreign components into a final product at the end of the manufacturing process doesn’t usually qualify for the "Assembled in USA" claim."

"What is the standard for a product to be called Made in USA without qualification?

For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The term "United States," as referred to in the Enforcement Policy Statement, includes the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories and possessions.

What does "all or virtually all" mean?

"All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content."

David

 

[roninelh]

It appears you are correct. I had two of the same knife (small buck bantam) and one of them I got with a lansky sharpening kit and is just marked "BUCK" the other knife identical is marked "BUCK USA". I confused them. I apologize for speaking prematurely. Sorry Buck!:foot:

you sure about that, cause that doesnt sound like something buck wouldve done, hope im right on this
Gene

 

[cards94]

I retired from a large company that provides systems for many federal and state government construction projects. The public work contracts required products that are manufactured in the USA. To meet the requirement, the parts (that were manufactured primarily in China), had to be assembled in the USA. That met the contract requirements for acceptance as Made in USA.

I'm not saying that's what any knife manufacturer is doing, but it seems like they could use the same or similar rules to meet the labeling requirement.

interesting. so knives from a bunch of companies that claim they are made in the US might not actually be made in the US, just assembled here but get to stamp it as made in the US. that's wrong. isn't anything made in the US anymore? I'm ready to go to a custom knifemaker if need be.