Too "Snooty" for an economy sodbuster?

knifeswapper said:
At Blade2017 I was talking to a factory about a sure 'nuff economy sodbuster pattern. Something like a barely sub-4" beater, but with a steel that would be useful - say D2. ...
Could the market still tolerate a true work knife at a value price point?
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A few years back I'd picked up a yellow Country Cousin based on the D2 steel and it's real good user appeal. Money was tight so only bought one(??? at $29 !!!). Fit and finish were ok - pins not quite flush and a small gap but the walk and talk were very good. Not quite as sharp as I expected but easy enough to reprofile. Then I discovered they had stopped the run of them and put it away. While I don't beat my knives I didn't want this one wrecked, not that I could do that in my lifetime lol. I'd really go for a slightly larger version as well as a good solid Barlow pattern in upgraded steel if that would become available in the not-so-snooty price range.
 
When I was building houses, I tried using a sodbuster, but gave it up for the immediacy of a box cutter. I like thinking ahead and getting the job well and truly done, and a sodbuster, if it dulled or chipped was more trouble that it was worth. A box cutter was ideal for rough use. Zip, zip, and you have a new, sharp blade! Seems there is no room in my life for an exotic - bladed work knife. In 2012, I bought a couple of Bullnose #71 patterns in 01 steel, meaning to try out that steel, but they are still sitting in a box!
Although I occasionally treat my carry knives to a full-blown, "jigged" (Lansky, Pro-sharp) edge treatment, or even the excellent services of a professional sharpener, my old standby is quick free-hand sharpening! Costs nothing, and is handy and immediate.
Here's where carbon steel fits the situation. I can only speak for the 3-4 GEC carbon knives that I mostlt switch around with, but they sharpen easily and hold a stroppable edge, it seems, forever!
I find D-2 harder to sharpen, with edge-holding even longer than the carbon, but not quite as razor-like as the 1095.
It seems odd to me to put a super steel blade in a beater. Like a blown Chrysler Hemi in a go cart!:D
But, I never actually tried to drive one!!:rolleyes:
 
RinCG said:
A few years back I'd picked up a yellow Country Cousin based on the D2 steel and it's real good user appeal. Money was tight so only bought one(??? at $29 !!!). Fit and finish were ok - pins not quite flush and a small gap but the walk and talk were very good. Not quite as sharp as I expected but easy enough to reprofile. Then I discovered they had stopped the run of them and put it away. While I don't beat my knives I didn't want this one wrecked, not that I could do that in my lifetime lol. I'd really go for a slightly larger version as well as a good solid Barlow pattern in upgraded steel if that would become available in the not-so-snooty price range.
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That is to the spirit I originally asked the question. My concern is not so much that I would be worried about someone looking down their nose at a $30 knife. My, query is more along the lines that you can't sell a knife these days for $30 because it will still be expected to be a $60 build. I get customers all the time that send back the $20 Case Sodbuster because the blade is not perfectly centered. I am simply not convinced that there is still a thought of "value" in the market. When I look at a knife, the first thing I ask myself seems to be "is it a value for the price?".

When brands get bought or go overseas on their own (Schrade, Hen & Rooster, Buck, etc.) it takes a toll on the market for their other models, which were outstanding knives in their time. Partly because many don't want to have to figure out which is which. And partly because it immediately assigns a stigma to the brand. The fear is that an economy series inside a brand would do something similar if the fit and finish were in line with the price sticker.
 
Mike I've purchased a Sodbuster (yellow Delrin) and Sodbuster Jr. (chestnut bone) from you both in CV. The blade in the Sodbuster was not centered and the backspring is slightly below the handles which resulted in a flat spot on the blade which is finally gone after numerous sharpenings. I didn't return it as I understand it is a "value" work knife and the "issues" didn't affect the use whatsoever.

I own a few modern "beater" or "value" knives which I use and carry regularly. IMHO value knives made in the US are still readily available albeit they tend to be in modern styled knives but not so much in traditional patterns. For example, I recently purchased a new USA made Kershaw Skyline which has excellent fit and finish, including a centered blade with decent 14C28N steel for $30.00. Unless someone is totally committed to a traditional knife why would one buy a traditional at twice the price for comparable or perhaps even better quality?
 
I wouldn't mind a sodbuster style knife with a Zulu or Insingo style blade, the upswept tip of a sodbuster doesnt do well for a lot of applications. A bottle opener similar to Evans beer buster on the back would be awesome. That is the sweetest little feature I just can't spend that much.

That being said I am carrying mikes sfo right now, Bullnose canvas micarta and its a sweet knife.

I think 50-65 is beater enough because I don't like to sacrifice fit and finish. A non centered blade on sodbuster doesn't bother me.
 
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Vinifera said:
I own a few modern "beater" or "value" knives which I use and carry regularly. IMHO value knives made in the US are still readily available albeit they tend to be in modern styled knives but not so much in traditional patterns. For example, I recently purchased a new USA made Kershaw Skyline which has excellent fit and finish, including a centered blade with decent 14C28N steel for $30.00. Unless someone is totally committed to a traditional knife why would one buy a traditional at twice the price for comparable or perhaps even better quality?
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That is a different question altogether. And I agree somewhat. My favorite carry right now is a Maserin Sport with D2 for $40 - but it is not a slipjoint. Made in Italy instead of U.S., but made by craftsmen that love knives.
 
LastRodeo said:
I've got a Queen Country Cousin in D2 that I paid roughly $30 for. I am very satisfied with the quality. I'm dont think anyone should expect perfection at that price point and are doing a disservice to the industry when they nitpick "work series knives" on social media.
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I have a Country Cousin too, and the fit and finish is great. The knife is an excellent value. The sodbuster is less than my favorite blade style, but buying it didn't stop me from buying many other knives since. If a well made knife of a usable size and blade style in D2 could be had for a very reasonable price (could be more than $30), I'd be all over it. Count me in. My 2 cents.
 
waynorth said:
When I was building houses, I tried using a sodbuster, but gave it up for the immediacy of a box cutter. I like thinking ahead and getting the job well and truly done, and a sodbuster, if it dulled or chipped was more trouble that it was worth. A box cutter was ideal for rough use. Zip, zip, and you have a new, sharp blade! Seems there is no room in my life for an exotic - bladed work knife. In 2012, I bought a couple of Bullnose #71 patterns in 01 steel, meaning to try out that steel, but they are still sitting in a box!
Although I occasionally treat my carry knives to a full-blown, "jigged" (Lansky, Pro-sharp) edge treatment, or even the excellent services of a professional sharpener, my old standby is quick free-hand sharpening! Costs nothing, and is handy and immediate.
Here's where carbon steel fits the situation. I can only speak for the 3-4 GEC carbon knives that I mostlt switch around with, but they sharpen easily and hold a stroppable edge, it seems, forever!
I find D-2 harder to sharpen, with edge-holding even longer than the carbon, but not quite as razor-like as the 1095.
It seems odd to me to put a super steel blade in a beater. Like a blown Chrysler Hemi in a go cart!:D
But, I never actually tried to drive one!!:rolleyes:
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I had a friend who was a construction worker. He carried this neat, weird little Gerber folding lock back box cutter contraption. I almost picked one up because it was pretty nifty and handy. Anywho... I guess there are different kinds of work, and building a house is work that entails lots of wood, some metal, PVC, carpet, and, essentially, all manner of materials that are abrasive and threatening to an edge. That's a job where a box cutter or disposable blades do make sense to me. So I guess it depends on the work, really. I don't see someone who works on a farm taking a box cutter to a castration, though, or a market gardener using one either.

The reason I opted for an actual knife and not that Gerber folding box cutter comes, I suppose, from the same spirit that you cited in your first post in this thread. I don't build houses. I don't break down a lot of cardboard. Sometimes woodwork, like making a table, and then I've enjoyed using my pocket knife. Or some landscaping. I want to carry a knife because I like them, because they're cooler than box cutters, they look better, they feel better, and there's more they can do. Sometimes there isn't a sharp knife in someone's kitchen (some people out there keep on going with dull knives for years,) and so the knife I used to work in the garden with, after a quick rinse, might be the best option available.

I lead a very minimalist lifestyle, and so when I have the opportunity to embrace versatility, sometimes I like to do that. I value a versatile knife is all, and I do prioritize blade steel when it's an option. I even enjoy sharpening knives. A good edge feels like an accomplishment. I think that I talk a lot about edge retention, but corrosion protection (particularly when it comes to that corrosion popping up on the tang and in the pivot) is the quiet concern in the corner that drives a lot of my want for higher alloys.
 
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traumkommode said:
I had a friend who was a construction worker. He carried this neat, weird little Gerber folding lock back box cutter contraption. I almost picked one up because it was pretty nifty and handy. Anywho... I guess there are different kinds of work, and building a house is work that entails lots of wood, some metal, PVC, carpet, and, essentially, all manner of materials that are abrasive and threatening to an edge. That's a job where a box cutter or disposable blades do make sense to me. So I guess it depends on the work, really. I don't see someone who works on a farm taking a box cutter to a castration, though, or a market gardener using one either.

The reason I opted for an actual knife and not that Gerber folding box cutter comes, I suppose, from the same spirit that you cited in your first post in this thread. I don't build houses. I don't break down a lot of cardboard. Sometimes woodwork, like making a table, and then I've enjoyed using my pocket knife. Or some landscaping. I want to carry a knife because I like them, because they're cooler than box cutters, they look better, they feel better, and there's more they can do. Sometimes there isn't a sharp knife in someone's kitchen (some people out there keep on going with dull knives for years,) and so the knife I used to work in the garden with, after a quick rinse, might be the best option available.

I lead a very minimalist lifestyle, and so when I have the opportunity to embrace versatility, sometimes I like to do that. I value a versatile knife is all, and I do prioritize blade steel when it's an option. I even enjoy sharpening knives. A good edge feels like an accomplishment. I think that I talk a lot about edge retention, but corrosion protection (particularly when it comes to that corrosion popping up on the tang and in the pivot) is the quiet concern in the corner that drives a lot of my want for higher alloys.
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Excellent post :thumbsup:
 
My wife's grandmother was a wise antiquer. She reminded my wife (when she was a wee lassie) at flea markets and auctions - that things made to be collectible never are. The things made to be used - get used, and the ones left over are highly sought after. Looks like the case with those Russell Barlows, Charlie.

Thanks for sharing that ad waynorth waynorth !
 
Part of what has always intrigued me about the Russell Barlow is the story that they were discontinued in the thirties because the price was considered too high at the time. So, if a two blade version of the barlow could be had for $6.70 a dozen in 1935 (I am guessing this would be wholesale, since the store display is also illustrated), I wonder what they were sold for at the time retail? How would that compare, adjusting for inflation and such, to the theoretical $30 knife we have been discussing here?
 
knifeswapper said:
That is to the spirit I originally asked the question. My concern is not so much that I would be worried about someone looking down their nose at a $30 knife. My, query is more along the lines that you can't sell a knife these days for $30 because it will still be expected to be a $60 build. I get customers all the time that send back the $20 Case Sodbuster because the blade is not perfectly centered. I am simply not convinced that there is still a thought of "value" in the market. When I look at a knife, the first thing I ask myself seems to be "is it a value for the price?".

When brands get bought or go overseas on their own (Schrade, Hen & Rooster, Buck, etc.) it takes a toll on the market for their other models, which were outstanding knives in their time. Partly because many don't want to have to figure out which is which. And partly because it immediately assigns a stigma to the brand. The fear is that an economy series inside a brand would do something similar if the fit and finish were in line with the price sticker.
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I think I understand exactly what you are saying and I think you are seeing the answer to your question when people return a Case Sodbuster for off center blades. I've never seen one with a centered blade (not looking too hard, but none of mine do/did), but many people don't want "issues" like that in a Case knife (or any other for that matter).
I would say if a manufacturer wants to have a perception of premium quality they need to provide premium quality regardless of price, and yes "value" as we traditionally understand it can damage a brand when that brand is associated with aesthetic quality as much as utility. Imagine if you rebranded a Kia as a Mercedes but still sold it for Kia money. Mercedes would lose prestige from that even though Kia is lauded for it's "value".
A related but separate point is I am not sure beater buyers would think $30 is an acceptable price for a beater knife when there is a bucket-o-knives at most convenience stores for $5-$7 (or less). I know it is at least double what I would pay for a beater, but that is another issue.
 
It is possible that the customer of the local hardware store that buys a Case Sod Buster does not have the same intense, discerning gaze as a customer of a place named "Collector Knives." You cater to knife collectors, not just average knife users, so yes, I bet your customers may have a higher set of standards in general for pocket knives. The disconnect comes from you selling a "value" knife to a more educated customer base.

What is considered a "good" wine at the supermarket may be considered "the cheap stuff" in a dedicated wine shop. So you may not be seeing a general snootiness in the knife buying public at large, just in the segment of it that you personally cater to.

knifeswapper said:
hope this market segment is not lost to only the chinese just because the knives may not be worthy of a pocket dump photo....
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My point illustrated above. The "pocket dump photo" group does not define the entire knife market. That is a specific segment. If you want to market to the Instagram crowd, then figure out what they want to buy. Which seems to be image and bragging rights over value and function.
 
jc57 said:
It is possible that the customer of the local hardware store that buys a Case Sod Buster does not have the same intense, discerning gaze as a customer of a place named "Collector Knives." You cater to knife collectors, not just average knife users, so yes, I bet your customers may have a higher set of standards in general for pocket knives. The disconnect comes from you selling a "value" knife to a more educated customer base.

What is considered a "good" wine at the supermarket may be considered "the cheap stuff" in a dedicated wine shop. So you may not be seeing a general snootiness in the knife buying public at large, just in the segment of it that you personally cater to.


My point illustrated above. The "pocket dump photo" group does not define the entire knife market. That is a specific segment. If you want to market to the Instagram crowd, then figure out what they want to buy. Which seems to be image and bragging rights over value and function.
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I worked in a couple of hardware stores during the early 70's, while I was going to college. I don't recall anyone complain about a blade not being centered. We just took one out of the back of the case, they were individually wrapped in Case tissue then, and gave it to the customer.
 
waynorth said:
Russell and the un-snooty knife concept!
(ca. 1930 Catalog)

View attachment 733335

A good Russell Barlow costs a "snooty" bit of money these days! After about 90 years!!
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Oi. $5 per dozen. (I know inflation and yadda yadda, but still).

I think this captures the spirit of exactly what Mike is talking about. Emphasis on the blade.

Unrelated, but I like the proportion of the pen blades, about like the larger pen blades on the 77s.
 
Case already makes an affordable sodbuster in a steel that I find perfectly adequate for such a knife.
Uses for a sodbuster really haven't changed much, and I think that the steels they've always made them out of still work for what the knives are used for.
 
MerryMadMonk said:
Not to snooty, but I already have a beater Sodbuster.

Still cuts like a razor...
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but a few more sharpenings and it's gonna cut like a saw when I reach those pits! :D

Then I'll switch over to this...
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or this
mLwxoXF.jpg
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Last one is beautiful!
 
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