Torch for silver brazing?

S.Grosvenor

S.Grosvenor

Fulltime KnifeMaker
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
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Curios what I need for brazing, torch, tanks, regulators, torch tip sizes, etc. I've tried the mapp gas 1lb bottle route but there has to be something between that and a full on $1000.00 cutting torch/tank setup? If not I guess I'll just bite the bullet:cool:
 
The Air/Acetelyne rigs will get you up close to Oxy/Acet rigs. They are loud as hell, and they use volume of flame (the biggest detractor for a knifemaker I believe) to increase the heat. The air/ gas is a fixed mixture.

It won't be ideal, but it would get you the right temps at a lower cost. I paid $160 for my bottle deposit, and chump change for the gas refills in a DOT Acetelyne "B" size tank.
 
I don't know where you came up with that $1000 figure. You can get a small Victor oxy acetylene torch kit for about $300. What you need depends on how much brazing
that you think you will be doing.

For the last 15 years, I brazed front sights onto shotgun barrels. I only worked 3 to 4 hours a day and could do 8 to 12 front sights. I am not sure what size the bottles were,
but they were about 4 feet tall. They would last over a year.

Keep in mind that depending on the alloy, the melting point of silver solder can be around 1000º F. I used Brownell's Silvaloy 355. I also tried Brownells Hi-Force 44 Solder
which has a much lower melting point. If you're just soldering on guards, the Hi-Force 44 would be more than strong enough and oxy-acet would be overkill. IMHO, of course.
 
UffDa is right too. I forgot about the MC bottle sets.
 
Acetylene tank, oxygen tank, Smith cutting/brazing torch kit, filling both tanks, with tax = $1000.00

For a small Q tank setup it would be around $800.00
 
R.Rock said:
Acetylene tank, oxygen tank, Smith cutting/brazing torch kit, filling both tanks, with tax = $1000.00
Click to expand...

It's your money. Spend it anyway that you want, but ask yourself, do I need all this or do I just want it? If you just want it, that's cool.

The torch kit I used came with a cutting torch. In 15 years, it was never used.
 
I asked if there was a kit with just a brazing tip, the salesman said no this is the only kit available, the reason for the post is to NOT spend the money on things I don't need, IE a cutting torch, a rosebud, etc...
 
Whatchoo talking to salesmen for? Welding supply places are some of the most chronically overpriced stores of any kind IMO. If I was going to shop for a torch kit, it would be online (I did AAMOF, 9 years ago got a Victor Journeyman set for about 60% of local price tag).

I don't know that this is deal spotting, as it's a buy it now item always available, but here's an example of a low priced torch kit with small tanks and all, new, for quite cheap. I can't vouch for quality as I don't know the brand, but you get the idea.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/professiona...246?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item485efb69d6

Small tanks like that will still get you a lot of braze for your buck. I'd recommend buying a larger setup with a known brand, but that's if you have the room and the interest/need to use it beyond knifemaking...

I use o/a for all my brazing with a victor #1 or #0 tip and it works great for me. At least, when I screw up, it's not the fault of the torch.

ETA: Craigslist will probably also yield used torch stuff for sale at good prices- I've had good luck buying used bottles, but be wary of used regs. They may well leak and be outdated/cost prohibitive to repair.
 
↑ What he said.




Really? A salesman told you this? In that case, it must be true? :rolleyes:

You might even take a look at listings on (GASP!) eBay.
 
I wouldn't go to that store any more. They are trying to rip you off severely. Here is a full outfit on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Thermadyne-03...390949033&sr=8-9&keywords=oxy+acetylene+torch

Pretty much any jewelers supplier, or any trader paper...or even HF will have a simple basic small job welding brazing torch. The 20CF tanks can be bought at places like HF or most anywhere. I have accumulated so many I give them away regularly. Propane and oxygen is all you need.

For years I used a Prestolite torch for all my brazing and larger silver soldering work. You can get a brand new rig and a "B" bottle from a welders supply for about $200-300 , but they are at the flea markets and yard sales often for $20. I am sure they sell on Amazon for $100 and on ebay for $50.
 
O thing to check is the availability of a local gas company that will refill 'your' tanks. Some will, some won't, and some will make you have your tanks re-certified.

Local flea markets are a great place to buy Pres-to-Lite torch outfits. I have bought them just to get the tanks for cheap. I have seen big tanks available in addition to the 'b' tank.

I use propane and oxygen as I like the cleaner flame than with acetylene.
 
are you using silver solder? what % is the silver? Mapp will work for small things, but can take a lot longer when doing larger pieces.
 
There are three types of tanks. Customer owned, deposit charged tanks, and rented tanks.

Customer owned has a higher start cost.

Deposit tanks cost you a deposit and you pay to get a charged tank.

Rent tanks cost you a demurrage charge periodically billed to you for possession of the tanks.

Tanks need to be hydrostatically tested every ten years, that is an additional charge the other two options don't place on you since you don't own them. Most outlets will not charge a tank if it hasn't been hydro-tested in ten years. They also will not charge tanks you or they don't own. Therefore buying used tanks and not knowing what you are looking for with test stamps and owner marks could be a waste of money.

There are several options much under $1000.
 
I've called 2 different gas/welding suppliers and they no longer rent tanks you must buy them . I'm thinking of a bigger tank than the b mainly because to get a refill is 80 miles .
I would like to be able to solder bolsters, ,gaurds and brass or copper to the spine like a musso. This is my current challenge and with the majority of the blade in the water i just can't get enough heat to get the solder, high temp silver from brownells. I've been using it for a year on small guards with no problems.
The torch I've been using is a mapp/oxy that uses 1lb disposable bottles and I've gone through 3 oxy bottles so far and getting sick of it.
Growing up in a rural world my grandfather taught me how to braze with a full size torch/tanks setup and that's all I used for yrs until taking a welding class in high school (1984). I've been a fabricator, mechanic, heavy equipment operator and I have always had access to the full on torch setups. It's this little finesse jewelry torch stuff that is like learning a completely new language with all the solder/flux combos air/acetelyn torch, I've been a blue coller guy for over 30yrs and never heard of such a thing.
I know these things are old hat for some of you but if you could be very specific about make and model of the torch you use it would be helpful.


Edit to add that I'm very much a do it right the first time kind of guy, buy it right the first time and you won't be sorry 15yrs down the road.
 
A "B" tank is a good sized acetylene tank. The "A" tank is the small one. There are much bigger acetylene tanks, but unless you are running a welding shop, you will not need one.
Just a piece of trivia, but the acetylene tanks were originally made to replace the carbide boxes on motor vehicles. The gas stations changed them for you. My old timer welder friend says that in his schooling back in the 40's, they taught that the "A" tank was for autos, and the "B" tank was for busses. I have pocket knives that are old enough to have a tank key on one blade to turn on your headlight gas.

The small oxygen tanks are 20CuFt they will last a long time for an occasional user. A better choice if re-fills are a problem is a 60CF. The 240's are great for long life if you need a lot of oxygen, but a lot of work to move around and transport.
 
I guess I didn't know how lucky I was. I've had an account with a local gas supplier that allowed me to just trade in tanks on an exchange basis. The tanks were re-certified after I traded them in, I assume. Thanks ron_m80 for the concise explanation and you are correct.

One of the reasons I switched from acetylene to propane is because I use a 20lb. tank which is easily transported, readily available and, for me, cost effective. When I had my studio, the gas was delivered to me. When I closed my studio, I got credit for all the big tanks I had listed on my account.
 
I inherited a set of tanks and torches from my father that had been sitting around for at least 25 years empty, Took them up to the welding supply store and asked the store owner what it would cost me to get them recertified and he said nothing, he rolled both tanks into the shed and rolled out two new ones, he said he would send them in with his next batch and it was no biggie.

I have to say i like the small hobby set of tanks better, easy to move around, the big set I got from my dad are a pain to move around, big steel cart, 75 feet of hose, its a workout putting them in the truck and taking them somewhere
 
When I bought my setup I waited for a sale at HF and used the 20% coupon to knock the Heavy Duty set down below $200. I then used the 20% off coupon to get the tanks (individually) when they went on sale. I got the acetylene tank for about $65 and the oxygen tank for about $80. These tanks were taken to the welding supply place, and were swapped out for old used (but full) tanks for very little money. Total investment in the new equipment was about $350. As noted previously, you can get used stuff on Craigslist for less. I just hate dealing with Craigslisters.
 
tryppyr said:
Total investment in the new equipment was about $350. As noted previously, you can get used stuff on Craigslist for less. I just hate dealing with Craigslisters.
Click to expand...
Thanks Tryppyr agree with that last statement.

SMITHY, could you go into detail about your setup? I can always get propane in town here.
Regulators?
Torch style ?
 
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