[Total Newbie] Good Machetes and How to Sharpen Them?

[RDSharpe]

Greetings!

This is a multi-purpose thread, but none of them are a "which is best" question.

First of all, it's my first post, so be gentle. Que Madonna.

I'm 31. I travel a lot but I'm sorry to say I'm from the communist state of Illinois. However, I'm from way south of I-70 and I'm on the Indiana border, where I sometimes pretend to live (especially at gun shows). The country is beautiful here. The mountains of Shawnee National Forest are my playground.

Never been much of a knife guy. However, I've spent a lot of time behind a machete. A lot. We have roughly 30 miles of horse trails. During the summer months, it takes four hours a day, twice a week in this 100-plus degree high-humidity weather to keep them clear for all our riders. After about 12 years of maintaining them, I'm finally getting sick of the Wal-Mart machetes. I know, I'm a slow learner!

Something in me just snapped while working on the trails today. This horrible drought and heat wave we're having, probably the worst since the 30's, must have fried my brain. I thought, "Why do I spend so much money on guns, but I probably swing this stupid Chinese hunk of pot metal around just as much and won't spend more than $10 on a good machete."

Today, a new leaf.

So, I'm looking for a good machete with an 18 to 22-inch blade, no less. It must be a Latin style as well; no goloks or kukris. Just personal preference.

In order of price, greatest to least, contenders are:

1. Condor 18 Inch El Salvador Machete with Micarta Handle
2. Bellotto 18 Inch Cocoa Machete with Wooden Handle
3. Tramontina 18 Inch Bush Machete with Wood Handle

It's not that I'm looking for advice about "which machete is the bestest" so much as I am looking for advice on sharpening them.

I'm ready to learn how to sharpen blades well, not just run a file over them until they're "good enough." I've never been a knife guy, so I don't know how to really get them sharp. Today, I've been learning with the help of the Internet, but I'm ready to start getting some experience.

I have no real equipment. I have a bunch of old files in the toolbox, but I don't know if they're any good for "real" sharpening. I have a stone, but no idea if it's considered rough or medium.

Sometimes, I spray WD-40 on the stone and drag the blade over it for a few minutes. "Good enough!"

Well, not anymore.

I watched a couple videos on Youtube about sharpening machetes. Primarily:

Machete Modifcations Tutorial Part One

Machete Modifcations Tutorial Part Two

What I don't like about the video is that he never talks about the amount of pressure he's applying to the stone. What I do like is how he talks about smoothing the shoulder and how that can help keep the blade from wedging into whatever you're trying to cut. However, I don't care about making it so thin with that "scandi" grind that it becomes useless for what I use it, and if I'm going to hit my leg, it will be with that bottom third, so it's the last section I want ultra-mega razor sharp!

Files and stones, of course, are a great way to get a machete sharp, but being such a novice, I'm wondering if a belt sander might help me get the job done now. I like the price on this one: http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-x-30-inch-belt-sander-2485.html

I liked this video about sharpening with a belt sander: Belt sander knife sharpening

That guy goes through a lot of belts. It's a small knife, but still, the belt sander seems to make quick work of the job. He makes it look easy enough that even a cave man like me can do it.

If I go the belt sander route, where should I get belts and what ones should I get? I mean, links and part numbers would be very helpful. I have no idea what people are talking about when they mention microns and belt material like Norax or whatever. Some day, I might, but not yet.

I also realize that no matter how awesome the machete or how sharp it is when I leave the garage, I will have to sharpen it again once or even twice in the field. No doubt about it.

For that, I'm considering a Lansky Puck Dual-Grit Sharpening Stone or some type of file.

I really don't know anything about stones files or what makes one more desirable than another for sharpening a knife. I hear a lot about "diamond" this and that for files and rough, medium and fine stones, but I couldn't tell the difference between them if one hit me up side the head.

I've been hearing a lot about "convex" edge. I think I understand the concept here pretty well in theory after watching multiple videos about it.

However, what I don't understand is how to field sharpen a good convex blade with a file or stone. Won't that ruin the work you've done to make the edge convex?

Anyways, sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for advice!

 

[singularity35]

Ask Richard J about paper wheels. He's a member here.

 

[Coyote3855]

I use a belt sander clamped in a vise to establish a bevel, then finish up with a file. I have an old Collins machete that's a great blade. There are a lot of Collins machetes for sale on the auction sites. If you get one that's been used, not a collector's item, they aren't unreasonably priced. Last one I bought was under $40. I also have a MooreMaker. Not sure if they still make them. Mine's dated 2005. The MM is thicker, which is better for heavier woody stuff. You might also look at the Woodman's Pal. They have a couple of models that might fit your needs. Made in the USA (as is MooreMaker). The brush hook on the WP is occasionally useful. I don't worry about convex bevels on machetes, others may differ.

 

[TwinStick]

Ontario & Condor are GREAT machetes. Heat treat is everything with them. A 1"x30" HF belt sander works awesome. HD now carries good belts for them too.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Use the belt sander (throw away the platen--it's junk) and get yourself a 40 grit blue zirconia belt by Klingspor and 80, 40, and 20 micron Trizact belts by 3M, all of which can be found at Lee Valley under their sharpening section. Let the belt do the work and sharpen the machete at about 15 degrees per side. When doing the final passes first run the edge over the end grain of a wooden block to remove any wire edge. When in the field I suggest using either a coarse/extra coarse or coarse/fine DMT Dialfold or a Jewelstik "stubby" diamond steel. Use either like a file (bringing the stone to the edge) and just sharpen it like a normal knife--don't worry about "ruining" the convex as the main advantage of a convex is in the smooth transition of geometry at the shoulder, which you won't be hurting. The natural variation in your stroke is going to cause a slight convexing affect anyhow, whether you like it or not. A Lansky Puck is not well suited for machetes as it will bring your fingers too close to the edge--at least for my comfort and I'm no stranger to machetes! They also are more for getting a "good enough" edge on tools like axes or shovels, or repairing edge damage. Not so much the screaming sharp edge I like on a machete.

If you want a more durable and much higher quality machine than the Harbor Freight sander I recommend the Kalamazoo 1x42 instead. Enco has the lowest price on them by far, and between the machine and the belts you can expect to spend about $250-$300, but it's worth every penny. I used to use a HF sander until the motor burned out (smoke and all) after a couple of years of heavy use, so it paid for itself, but the Kalamazoo is a dream to use and I wish I had started with it. USA-made and the motor is an industrial-grade Baldor.

Out of the machetes you mentioned, I'd go with the Condor but I'd get it in the polypropylene handle. It's an ergonomic wonder, and will never loosen as it's injection molded straight to the tang and the lanyard tube passes through it as well. Doesn't give you blisters with extended use either. And it'll come sharp, so most of your work will be done for you already and you can skip the 40 grit belt except when repairing heavy edge damage. Just use the 40 and 20 microns for touchup work.

 

[David Martin]

A member here, HeavyHand uses and sharpens machettes and is good with them. Once he gets on he'll see this topic and comment for you. DM

 

[RDSharpe]

Thanks so much to everyone who replied! I read all your posts and appreciate the help very much.

I look forward to hearing from HeavyHand.

Glad to hear Condor is a good brand.

Forty, I'm going to learn the hard way on the sander; I called HF and they have one in stock. 'Sides, you don't want to give a kid a new 'Vette as a first car. It may be putting the cart before the horse just a tad, but I'm going to order 40 grit blue zirconia belt by Klingspor and 80, 40, and 20 micron Trizact belts by 3M from LV.com now.

Thanks for saving me money by recommending the PPL handle. I didn't like the gray finish of the micarta anyway. Great to hear it comes sharp.

I get you on the field sharpening. I can visualize it now. I'll forget the Puck and Google coarse/fine DMT Dialfold and a Jewelstik "stubby" diamond steel. Any good sponsor links? I'll check out your sig, too.

Thanks again! Very, very helpful!!!

 

[HeavyHanded]

A member here, HeavyHand uses and sharpens machettes and is good with them. Once he gets on he'll see this topic and comment for you. DM

Thanks David. I don't use them as much as some members here, but I certainly do have some opinions

I really like Tramontina for the heat treat and steel. Condor has a great reputation too. I wish I could say something about the Bellotto line but have zero experience. My feeling is any of them will work extremely well for you as they're all made for hard use under some of the toughest working conditions in S America. As for sharpening, I cannot imagine anything being more convenient than a large singlecut mill file and a C clamp for locking it to your bench. Use the file more or less straight on to the edge to establish a good bevel, then use a draw file technique to refine it. From there you could simply strop it on black emery compound from Sears and follow with the white compound. In both cases wrap some newspaper around your old bench stone, apply the compound and discard the newspaper for fresh when it gets loaded up. There's a real good sticky at the top of this page re Stropping. I've restored some very beat up machete edges to arm hair shaving sharp using just these two compounds as described.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/750008-Stropping-angle-plus-pressure

If I'm going to do whizbang edge I'll use a 1200 grit King waterstone after the file and before stropping. With practice you'll get to an edge that can shave your face, and do so very, very quickly. For hard use and touchups in the field, the file will do everything you need. Again with practice, esp sharpening in the field without benefit of a bench, you'll whip up edges that are very sharp when finishing with a drawing technique on the file. Diamond "steels" and larger rat tail files are a good choice too. I use a 12" file, but for carrying around, something smaller will work well. Also, the pattern on the file gets smaller as the size of the file shrinks, so a smaller file will cut a somewhat more refined edge (but take longer to get there).


http://www.evenfallstudios.com/woodworks_library/nicholson_guide_to_filing_2006.pdf

Page 5 of this PDF, page 9 of the actual document. I was very surprised by how well this worked on machete edges with a little practice.

I use a piece of 1.25 or 1.5" x 8" hardwood dowel drilled out for my file handle, keeps things well away from the cutting edge. Best of luck whatever you choose!

 

[HeavyHanded]

This thread prompted me to go back and take another look at my "field maintenance" for machetes/larger choppers. At my last house I had to do some extended chopping - vine clearing and sapling mostly, along with invasive ground cover (Google 'Dog Strangling Vine' - stuff almost did strangle my dog!). Field sharpening was done mostly with a large grooved butcher's steel with rat tail file touch-ups when I got back to the garage if it was real beat up.

Did a quick test using an old single grit SiC puck. Used it circular fashion, followed by some light directional grinding to overlay a uniform scratch pattern - this step was probably unnecessary. Took some white compound rubbed it on my old walking stick and stropped it a few times. You could strop on any fairly straight branch. Ahh, hair popping and fast. This method would even work on my grass sickle.

One last thought - if you're clearing a lot of brush and it makes sense to use a manual tool, a ditch bank knife might make the most sense. This what I ultimately went with - it can take out saplings, overhanging branches, vines, invasive weeds etc all in one package.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Also if mostly taking out stuff at ground level a scythe with a weed or bush blade can be a good choice. Ditch bank blades work best when you have a mix of stuff at and above ground level, but a scythe excels when you're just dealing with ground stuff. The machete, obviously, is the most versatile of the bunch.

 

[HeavyHanded]

For the dog strangling vine AKA black or pale swallowwort, I started out with my string trimmer but the stuff would choke it up too often. Went to a grass sickle on a 5' pole and the stems on the swallowwort are so tough the sickle would get bogged down. Finally hooked side on the ditch bank knife had enough mass, reach, and edge profile to make relatively short work of it. The stuff is an absolute curse in my neck of the woods, stems are impossibly tough and it spreads like a wildfire.

In open fields, DSV entwines upon itself to form dense, knee-high, horizontal growth. It swiftly becomes impenetrable and crowds out virtually all other plants. The stems are like a mass of thick-gauge wire. Conceivably, a dog or other small animal could become ensnared and choke as it tries to struggle free – hence the name.

My dog got tangled up in some going down an embankment - if I hadn't freed him up it would have choked him.

completely dominates the understory - the woods and fields I remember from my childhood are long gone and not coming back.

 

[HoosierQ]

I've been using a file on my Collins Legitimus for 30 years...works great, goes fast, and the blades still look great.

 

[wouldestous]

part of what i do for a living is invasive plant control. did some looking (doesnt occur in the southeast u.s. where i live), youll probly have to either dig up the root crown of each plant or use herbicide if you really want to be rid of the dog strangling vine. and you will have to keep on it every year to control new plants from seed. the good news is that its a fine testing ground for blade enthusiasts!

but on topic:
ive mostly used imacasa and tramontina machetes. but am in agreement with the previous poster who said most any 'real' machete would suit your needs.

as for sharpening... well im pretty low tech and most everything i do would be classified as field sharpening lol. i use a big file to work the bevel down to a pretty low angle, maybe 15 degrees. when the blade has the shape i want i use a smaller, finer file or a 'canoe' stone to maintain the edge. this is, i think, what is called a scandi grind.
i would note that this kind of sharpening on a machete made of quality metal will not make the edge weak and useless like it will on a crap metal machete.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

For the dog strangling vine AKA black or pale swallowwort, I started out with my string trimmer but the stuff would choke it up too often. Went to a grass sickle on a 5' pole and the stems on the swallowwort are so tough the sickle would get bogged down. Finally hooked side on the ditch bank knife had enough mass, reach, and edge profile to make relatively short work of it. The stuff is an absolute curse in my neck of the woods, stems are impossibly tough and it spreads like a wildfire.

A grass hook like what you described would be far too light in the blade to do a good job. You'd want a full-blown scythe with a good heavy weed blade. I have a Dutchman-pattern TrueTemper weed blade I use on the thick and/or reedy heavy growth and it just blasts through it like it's not even there.

part of what i do for a living is invasive plant control. did some looking (doesnt occur in the southeast u.s. where i live), youll probly have to either dig up the root crown of each plant or use herbicide if you really want to be rid of the dog strangling vine. and you will have to keep on it every year to control new plants from seed. the good news is that its a fine testing ground for blade enthusiasts!

but on topic:
ive mostly used imacasa and tramontina machetes. but am in agreement with the previous poster who said most any 'real' machete would suit your needs.

as for sharpening... well im pretty low tech and most everything i do would be classified as field sharpening lol. i use a big file to work the bevel down to a pretty low angle, maybe 15 degrees. when the blade has the shape i want i use a smaller, finer file or a 'canoe' stone to maintain the edge. this is, i think, what is called a scandi grind.
i would note that this kind of sharpening on a machete made of quality metal will not make the edge weak and useless like it will on a crap metal machete.

Yup! Quality steel and heat treatment on a machete will allow you to take the edge down around 15 degrees per side no problem. That's exactly where I keep mine.

 

[ConBon]

Using a belt sander belt for touchups is great in the field. Use a finer grit and you can hold one end down with a rock or the like, or you can tack it to a tree. Then you can use the back side as a strop.

 

[willseeyalater]

Using a belt sander belt for touchups is great in the field. Use a finer grit and you can hold one end down with a rock or the like, or you can tack it to a tree. Then you can use the back side as a strop.

You can take a paint stir stick and glue cut to fit strips of worn belt sanders belts on each side, one side a medium grit and the other a fine grit. Costs you nearly nothing if you use worn belts and paint stirs are free or use the rulers that are giveaways at every county fair.

 

[Komitadjie]

Most definitely agree with the belt sander method, I've had very good luck with that on a number of blades, especially ones that are very torn up. I typically start with (if it's in rough shape) a 60-grit Norton Blaze ceramic belt, grinding straight-on into the edge until I reach the bottom of the nicks, then start to re-profile at around 15 degrees relative to the belt. It is all done in the slack, so of course the final edge is a convex that is only vaguely related to the angle you're holding it at, but 15 seems to give me a profile that holds up well, given *my* hand pressure, stroke speed and belts. Your results may vary, so it's very much worth playing around with!

After the 60, I'll switch to a 120 Blaze, then the Trizact belts down to as fine as I want to go. If I really want to waste time and wow someone, I sharpen it like I do a knife. That means all the way down the Trizact series, then with leather on belts at 1u and .5u. It's utterly and totally un-necessary to take it that far, the steel is not hard enough to hold that polished of an edge for more than a little bit, but it can sure wow your buddies at camp when you first pull it out.

If you take it up that far, though, be sure to warn the guy you hand it to! One of the guys I sharpen for almost hurt himself pretty bad with careless technique and an edge like that, he was clearing a shooting lane for his deer hunt (archery) and took a careless swing at a green branch up about three feet off the ground. Blade went right through, and over-swung down at his right leg. It was only luck that avoided lodging the edge in his shin, it went RIGHT past the outside of his calf, cut a great big slash in his pants and nicked the top of his boot. He was previously used to the stock Gerber edge, which was a huge, rough V-bevel of probably ~80 degrees inclusive, and the reduced cutting effort of the polished convex severed the green wood with a lot less force than he was expecting.

 

[wouldestous]

just did a preliminary sharpening on a 26 inch bellotto and took it into the yard to try it out even though it still needs a little more work on the edge to be fully ready.

my first impression is that its a very stiff blade with very little 'flex'. it also seems heavy relative to other machetes of that size. therefore it seems best for chopping heavier brush rather than clearing grass and more tender green vegetation.
the handle is two pieces of wood secured to the metal with a gap between the halves. even in the 6-10 test swings i did it tended to pinch a little. so thats not great. also the handle doesnt have that 'lip' at the bottom that helps you hold onto it.

what that means for this thread is;
if you are just going to have one machete then this is probably not the one to get. ymmv. lol

 

[RDSharpe]

Just got my Condor El Salvador 18-inch machete in the mail!

VERY impressed!

Hard not to be! I cut myself within two minutes of opening it!!!

Everyone goes on and on about the sheaths. Well, now I know why. When they say "saddle leather," they really mean it. Smells just like a clean, new saddle. Take it from me, I own several. It's very supple and highly pleasing to the touch and eye. I sent the machete to my parents' house and my mother even commented on it.

Well, one thing they don't say about the sheath is that it's crazy tight. I'm sure it will loosen with time, but right now, it takes serious force to get the machete in and out. To do pull it out, I looped one finger over the mouth of the opening. You know what happened next!

Here's a picture of it beside its Chinese comrade in arms:

The Condor feels very substantial. It's noticeably heavier than the bent piece of pot metal it lies beside. It doesn't flop around when you wave it.

FortyTwoBlades wasn't exaggerating when he called the handle an ergonomic wonder. However, though I'm well built, I have tiny girly-man hands. So, you're real man's hands might find it a tight grip. Dunno.

Haven't tested it out on anything besides my finger yet. I'll report back after it's properly field tested.

 

[RDSharpe]

Please 'scuse the double post.

I played Indiana Jones for about five minutes and found that this dog will hunt. It does very well. Its weight is quite substantial due to the considerably increased mass over the el-cheapo Chinese machete. It will tire a body quicker, but probably not before doing the same amount of work. For example, if I get tired after an hour of swinging the very light pot metal Chinese Wal-Mart machete through 100 yards of brush, I might get tired after a half hour of swinging the Condor, but I still cleared the same 100 yards. Just guessing and throwing out round numbers. Like I say, I've not yet gave her a good field test.

Also, after playing the Last Samurai for a bit, the sheath loosened up to a perfect amount of tension. If you turn it upside down, it won't fall out; not even close. You still have to pull to draw it and it goes in with force. But, it's the right amount of force.

I sprayed some WD-40 on it and sat it on my shelf inside the house. I won't store it in the leather sheath.

Really happy I got the Condor El Salvador (and now really glad I didn't get the Bellotto)! Great machete of fantastic quality. Very comfortable in my bare hand. No way this thing is giving me blisters. Blade came sharp enough to hack through anything with ease (including fingers ). Really looks the part, too. In its sheath, its plainly obvious even to a casual observer like my parents this is a real machete of fine craftsmanship. Brandished, it looks like a weapon of mass brush destruction.

One question, what's the hole toward the tip of the blade for? Hanging it on a nail? I like how it sings when you don't swing it well, kinda like it's hissing at you for a poor swing.

One last thought - if you're clearing a lot of brush and it makes sense to use a manual tool, a ditch bank knife might make the most sense.

Very interesting posts, HeavyHanded. Thank God we don't have that junk here yet, but you're right; the forests of our youth are gone. We have some type of green vine now with horrible thorns. It's like iron. It bunches up too, and gets around the horses' legs. Hard as heck to clear because its so tough yet so light. Farmers say it came from the South...

That ditch bank knife looks like a fantastic tool! Of course, I wouldn't want to use it in the saddle, but if I'm going out on foot, that might be a better weapon of choice than a machete. While wielding a ditch bank knife, I can even pretend I'm Death Dealer swinging my battleaxe.

As for the full-fledged scythe? No freaking thanks, Forty! I hate those unwieldy things. Makes me feel like a peasant working his master's field. My friend has one and I don't know how, but he can really clear grass down low with it like you say. So, yeah, they do their job, but not for me. Too much like real work.

Now, with that ditch bank knife, instead of going manual labor I'm slaying the horde by the masses!