Tough, all weather rifle--blued vs. stainless vs. stainless plus

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Kirk_Ferentz

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Feb 16, 2010
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Thanks again to all of you who have offered and are still offering input in my previous post about what caliber I should go with for my new rifle. The next step is to decide on a model.

From what I have heard, none of the models that I am considering are going to suffer in any of the "basic" areas for a good all-around medium and big game rifle, such as accuracy, strength of action, ability to handle various loads, built to last, etc. But if you think otherwise let me know.

Beyond the basics, the things that I would value most would be light weight and ability to handle abuse and tough weather/conditions.

For this reason, I am pretty much limiting myself to synthetic stocks. And I know that the stainless models are marketed to people who are looking to weather-resistant rifles, but I am also skeptical as to whether that is more about actually addressing a real need or just finding a way to offer a more expensive product.

What are yall's experiences? Is it worth it to pay extra for a stainless model? Any drawbacks? I have never really used one.

Another issue is that the rifle manufacturers try to go beyond just a stainless rifle and offer special "tough weather" rifles such as the Remington 700 XCR II. This rifle is stainless but has some sort of coating on it and other bells and whistles. Again, not sure if this is actually making the rifle tougher or just a way to make a more expensive product.

I am seriously eyeing the remington SPS stainless at this point, but wondering whether the XCR II would be worth the extra cash. Winchesters just seem too expensive to me for what you get, as do Brownings.

I also think that the Tikka T3 lite stainless looks like it might be a great choice. It is quite a bit lighter than the other rifles that I am considering, at 6 3/16 lbs. Also looking at stainless Howas/weatherbys. Of course, the non-stainless options would be cheaper.

Here is the link to the remington 700s:
http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/bolt-action-model-700.aspx

And the tikka and howas:

http://www.tikka.fi/t3models.php?litess

http://www.legacysports.com/products/howa/specs/specs_howahogue.html
 
I've been on both ends of the spectrum. I collected old Winchesters for quite a few years, and had a lot of original Pre-64 Model 70's. Some in very rare calibers.

Two of my favorites were a 300 H&H, and a Super Grade in 338 win mag...
When I was still rifle hunting, I Elk hunted in snow and very cold conditions, in a wilderness area. It was a real test on equipment. While these rifles were prized possessions to me, I did take them hunting a couple times.

They were blued rifles, but I made sure they were coated with oil before I went, and I kept them wiped down while I was away from home. I never had any problems with rust starting.

I know I'm taking a long time to get to my point :D, but you can have a blued rifle, which I think looks really nice, use them and take care of them, and they will hold up just fine.
If you use the rifle a lot, it will over years show some wear in the bluing, but it won't hurt anything.

The SS is fine. You don't have to worry about them much. The coatings imo, are really unnecessary with a SS gun. However, if you like the idea of a SS rifle but don't like the looks, the coatings may be attractive to you.
If you take good care of your guns, it really comes down to aesthetics...

The new Winchesters are way overpriced, and are nothing like the old ones, and imo so are the Brownings.
If you want to spend a little more money and get a true Pre-64 Winchester or an early Belgian Browning, you will have a very nice rifle.

The Remington 700's are a good rifle, and have proven themselves for years.

I've only had one Tikka T3, but it was a very nicely made rifle. They are made by Sako, and Sako makes some outstanding rifles.
My T3 had the absolute smoothest action I've ever seen on a rifle. Even smoother than my Remington Alaskan Wilderness custom shop rifle...
They are accurate, and they have an adjustable trigger, which is nice. Plus, the integral scope ring mounting system, is very strong, and very simple, and the scope rings are included with the rifle...

The Howa / Vanguards are good rifles. Priced decent, and reports are they are accurate. I had an older Howa rifle before they started doing the Vanguards, and that rifle was very heavy. Not sure how the new ones are...

Wood stocks aren't as bad as a lot of people make them out to be. Most are sealed now to help keep the moisture out, but the barrel channel and where the action seats, are usually not as well protected. I always sealed those areas well to help keep moisture out. Granted, the wood will ding if you hit it hard enough, but unless you are really careless with your rifle, or have a bad fall, they really hold up well under normal use.
Synthetics are durable, and typically a little lighter, but a lot of the synthetics that are put on new rifles are really cheap. They don't have any reinforcement in the bedding area, which doesn't help accuracy, and I've seen some that were warped from the factory, and actually putting pressure on the side of the barrel. Not good.

Any of the choices you mentioned will serve you fine. The biggest difference will be in the way the stock fits you. When you pull up a rifle and it feels like it was made just for you, you will know thats the one you want. Irregardless of whose name is stamped on the barrel.
 
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I have a SS Savage Weather Warrior in .243 w/22" barrel and muzzle brake, weighs a little less than 7# w/o scope..AccuTrigger..shoots fine.

My intended purpose for purchase was deer/hog hunting...30-06 getting a little much for this old man. My .308's are fine for the bench but all are too heavy to carry all day - Ruger MK II V/T and 700 HB w/H.S. Precision stock.

I like SS for most handguns, less so for rifles..the very first SS revolver I saw was a S & W 629 that had FACTORY rust on the hammer..go figure.
 
few members have worked with guns as much as 338375 & he makes sense. i will mention afew factors that age 72 has shown mtself
no stainless will ever be as attractive as blued
unless you are in alaskan rain for 2 weeks at a time rust should be no problem
most stocks are sealed but the syns are impervious
remember the old timers had no super lubes & spent months at a time in the sticks & did well.
used guns can be great values if you have a dealer allowing return if you're not happy.
dennis
 
If I had a blued rifle and wanted to keep it rust free in a wet climate I would use paste wax, not oil, on the exterior of the gun. Obviously you need to use lubricant on the working mechanisms, but wax is tougher (less easily wiped off) for the outsides, both stock and metal surfaces. Another trick is to put electricians tape over the muzzle to keep water out. It easily blows off at a shot as the air ahead of the bullet is rapidly compressed, so no effect on accuracy.

By all accounts I'd say the Savage or the Howa is the best value.
 
Thanks for the info. As for looks, I probably prefer a semi-dark matte type of finish, like my parkerized shotgun over a glossy blueing or shiny stainless, so go figure. ;-)
 
DennisStrickland said:
few members have worked with guns as much as 338375 & he makes sense. i will mention afew factors that age 72 has shown mtself
no stainless will ever be as attractive as blued
unless you are in alaskan rain for 2 weeks at a time rust should be no problem
most stocks are sealed but the syns are impervious
remember the old timers had no super lubes & spent months at a time in the sticks & did well.
used guns can be great values if you have a dealer allowing return if you're not happy.
dennis
Click to expand...

Good point Dennis. A used gun can be a great value, and sometimes you can find one that already has a good scope on it. Heck, most people only put a few boxes of ammo through them, so they are basically new.

black mamba said:
If I had a blued rifle and wanted to keep it rust free in a wet climate I would use paste wax, not oil, on the exterior of the gun. Obviously you need to use lubricant on the working mechanisms, but wax is tougher (less easily wiped off) for the outsides, both stock and metal surfaces. Another trick is to put electricians tape over the muzzle to keep water out. It easily blows off at a shot as the air ahead of the bullet is rapidly compressed, so no effect on accuracy.

By all accounts I'd say the Savage or the Howa is the best value.
Click to expand...

The wax is a great idea. A while back I was at a local store, and they had a new Savage ss/synthetic rifle, so I took a look at it.
They have really changed their rifles... This one had the Accu Trigger, a nicely redesigned floorplate, and the stock had a great fit for me. It also had a nice recoil pad.

Kirk_Ferentz said:
Thanks for the info. As for looks, I probably prefer a semi-dark matte type of finish, like my parkerized shotgun over a glossy blueing or shiny stainless, so go figure. ;-)
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Thats alright. Thats why they make so many choices
 
mamba is entirely correct on the paste wax idea. make sure exposed parts [trigger guard, action, & barrell] are clean of oil, then apply paste wax , let dry, & lightly buff with a towel. apply 2nd coat , let dry & leave as is. paste wax hardens as it ages & in colder climes absolutely wo'nt rub off.--dennis
 
I like blued more than stainless and I like synthetic stocks more than wood.

My favorite finish is a good parkerized finish or one of the ceramic finishes in a matte.

A good coat of paste wax works fabulously well to protect a blued finish. I've never had any rust issues on my blued guns, even after sitting in downpours for hours on end.

I've had just about every major maker and to be honest, I like the Savage better than any of them.

If I was buying a rifle now, I'd go to the ER Shaw Barrels website and check out their semi-custom rifles. For $700 or so, you can get a rifle in about any caliber you desire, with the barrel contour/weight you desire, in a walnut, synthetic, or laminated wood stock.
 
I used to have a model 70 featherweight that was so handsome. I would use it when I went to my brother in laws to sit in a stand and shoot deer over alph alpha (fair weather gun only). I have since reduced my assortment of rifles and have 3 left. None of them are "pretty" in the sense of having nice wood grain or deep blued barrels. I have a ruger hawkeye stainless/synthetic that is a tool to me. I push bush with it, it gets snowed on, I crawl through deep snow with it, gets blood on it, I use it as a walking stick sometimes etc. No wood to scratch and no blueing to ruin. I also don't have to coat the thing in oil or baby it when I go back to camp. It's a tool to me and tools are meant to be used imo.

There is nothing wrong with buying a nice wood/blued rifle to pass on to your kids and shoot when the weather is nice but if you're talking spending a week in the bush hunting moose when it's raining/freezing or heaven forbid on the coast I'd never take something like that along. Synthetic stocks also don't change based on temp/humidity.
 
I checked out the ER Shaw Barrels site cramsey ... do you know where he gets his various components? Looks like he makes the barrels himself.
 
Yes, Shaw is a barrelmaker. Been in business quite a while--good barrels, good prices.
 
The actions are the same as on the Savage 110 series.

They do not use a barrel locknut like the Savage rifles do, they use the traditional threaded barrel inside the receiver.

Savage supplies the actions to Shaw, who then builds the rifle with their own barrels, in your choice of caliber, contour, finish, etc. ER Shaw is the custom barrel division of Small Arms Manufacturing. SAM produces many of the OEM barrels used by other manufacturers, along with most of the barrels on military arms.

The wood stocks (walnut and laminate) are from Boyds. Since the synthetic seems to be exactly the same as what Savage offers, they probably get them from Savage (who molds their own synthetic stocks).

The rifle has the Savage Accu-Trigger on it, which, IMO, is THE best factory trigger you can get. It is the reason that EVERY other gun maker now offers user adjustable triggers on their guns.

Prices start around $625 and go up from there, depending on your choices.
 
cramsey3006 said:
The actions are the same as on the Savage 110 series.

They do not use a barrel locknut like the Savage rifles do, they use the traditional threaded barrel inside the receiver.

Savage supplies the actions to Shaw, who then builds the rifle with their own barrels, in your choice of caliber, contour, finish, etc. ER Shaw is the custom barrel division of Small Arms Manufacturing. SAM produces many of the OEM barrels used by other manufacturers, along with most of the barrels on military arms.

The wood stocks (walnut and laminate) are from Boyds. Since the synthetic seems to be exactly the same as what Savage offers, they probably get them from Savage (who molds their own synthetic stocks).

The rifle has the Savage Accu-Trigger on it, which, IMO, is THE best factory trigger you can get. It is the reason that EVERY other gun maker now offers user adjustable triggers on their guns.

Prices start around $625 and go up from there, depending on your choices.
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Any ideas on the pros/cons of one of these rifles vs. just getting a savage with the accu trigger?
 
Kirk_Ferentz said:
Any ideas on the pros/cons of one of these rifles vs. just getting a savage with the accu trigger?
Click to expand...

I haven't checked up on E.R Shaw for awhile, an didn't know you could order complete rifles from them now.
By the sounds of it, the only real difference will be the barrel, plus you can order contour and your caliber of choice.
It would be a good way to go if you wanted a caliber that Savage didn't offer in their rifles.Or if you just wanted to have a semi-custom rifle done, just the way you wanted.

That said, Savage barrels have been good for quite a few years. I have always been surprised at the accuracy you can get with a Savage out of the box.
Another key to their accuracy, is the funny looking barrel nut. That is how they set head spacing.

E.R Shaw barrels are a good, middle of the road barrel, that will work just fine on a hunting rifle. In order to get a top of the line match grade barrel, you will spend as much on the barrel alone, as it costs to get a complete rifle from Shaw...

It depends on your budget. If money is a factor somewhat, I would get a Savage, and take the extra you would spend on a Shaw rifle, and put it towards a good scope

YMMV
 
i have to agree about the savage as far as out of the box accuracy. in past remington 700s ruled out of the box for accuracy but in the last 10 or 12 years the poor step child [savage] has moved mountains. for straight hunters i suggest factory barrels since very most can give 1 in. groups with a little load tampering. i realize that 2 in. is plenty satisfactory for hunting but when your rifle will shoot 3 shot groups of 1 in. or less at 100 yds. it installs a confidence in your equipment that i.m.o. makes you a better hunter.when you know your rifle is accurate you say to yourself " my stuff is great & the only failure would be my lack of proficiency".--dennis
 
The main advantage to the ER Shaw gun is the ability to choose different calibers, barrel lengths, contours,and finishes. I like a little longer and heavier barrel than most people or that's on most factory guns. One of those rifle nut things. :D

I'd take an off the rack Savage over just about any other factory gun, any day of the week. All of the Savage rifles I've had would shoot 1" groups or smaller at 100 yds with their favorite factory ammo. I can't say that about the other companies.
 
So is there a consensus that the savages have good barrels but the Shaw barrels are marginally superior?

Interesting about the Savages. As said above, I have thought of Savages as the poor step child to the remingtons and winchesters of the world. But I definitely have an appreciation for how important a good trigger is, and it sounds like they may even lead in accuracy to boot.

Another one that I should probably throw into the mix is the Remington 770, although it sounds like it isn't going to beat out the Savages. Seems like the 770 is marketed as a competitor to a Tikka type of rifle, and they have a great deal on one of these with a scope (not sure how good the scope is).

Savage also has a rifle/scope combo deal, althought I don't see one in the matte stainless, which is probably what I would lean towards.
 
Please forgive me for being blunt but the 770 is garbage. Buy a 700 SPS (they are so cheap I know several fellas that buy them just to use the action for custom builds and they sell the barrel and stock on exchange forums) and you'll have a real rifle. Just my 0.2.
 
Bluntness is appreciated.

Definitely taking a look at the Savage Hunter and Weather Warrior rifles. Gotta decide whether I want the "AccuStock" configuration that adds .4 pounds of weight. Then gotta decide on the Savage vs. the Shaw vs. the Tikka
 
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