Trying to decide between WS Professional PA and WS KO Mk. 2

[FixedBladesPlus]

After reviewing prior threads and then searching YT and other online resources, I've yet to find a comprehensive comparison of the Work Sharp Professional Precision Adjust and the Work Sharp Ken Onion Knife & Tool ELite MK2 belt sharpener. They both run $250 on Amazon, and both receive high customer satisfaction scores (4.6/5 and 4.7/5, respectively). I can only afford one, and can't decide which would better suit my needs and knives. I am hoping some of you fine people have experience with both and would be willing to share your analysis (of either or both).

I'm attaching pictures of some of my knives. I have a bunch of others as well, including an Ontario RAT-7 (1095), Ontario SP-2 (1095), Varusteleka Terävä Jääkäripuukko 140 (80CrV2), Cold Steel Master Hunter (CPM-3V), and more. My point is that I have knives ranging from mid-sized to quite large and made from a variety of steels. Thanks in advance for your input!

 

[Guy McVer]

First off, you can't trust the "big river" site reviews. It's a wasteland of fake reviews and people who are too ignorant to understand when and how something is bad, or even when and how something is their own fault and not the fault of the product.

Secondly, you can't trust youtube either. It's mostly people trying to make money by effectively doing marketing for various products. You will rarely find channels which attempt to give you thorough, honest reviews. You have to out of your way to dig for that kind of content.

I'll say this: if you're not sure which one to pick, then don't go with the belt sharpener. On a belt sharpener, it's far too easy to remove way more material than you need to remove. You also need to worry about overheating the edge, which is a very bad thing. The temptation of the belt sharpener is that "oh I can just do things really fast". The reality is that you can screw things up pretty fast. So if you're really not sure, then don't go with a belt sharpener.

The only reason that I would go with a belt sharpener is if I needed to do a ton of sharpening and I didn't mind having to keep replacing the paper. Even then I would still be very careful with it.

 

[Bdtry]

Both systems have pros and cons.

With the PPA you get diamond stones from the start so you can sharpen all your knives, but replacements can be hard to find and they are "plated" diamond stones that usually wear out fairly quickly comparatively. There is a reason that upgrades are popular for this system. You can also run into issues with thicker knives not fitting into the clamp and a lot of flex.

With the belt sharpener you won't be able to really sharpen your high end steels since the belts are all aluminum oxide. If you don't know what you are doing you can REALLY mess up your knives. Making them into recurves, rounding over you tips, over heating the edges and reducing their edge holding ability, removing a lot more metal than necessary etc. A lot of people run them way too fast, you really need to slow it down. Belts can get expensive to replace for these smaller sharpeners. That being said if you get the technique down you can sharpen knives very quickly but they will all be convex edge.

If you have a bit more money to spend I would suggest taking a look at the Hapstone RS system. It is around the same size as the PPA but much better and uses Edge Pro format 1x6" stones that have become kind of an industry standard format. The downside is good stones are more expensive and none are included. You can use several clamps at a time instead of 1 clamp on the PPA to better hold your knives, up to ~8" in length and ~6mm (~1/4") in thickness.
The base unit
https://www.hapstone-usa.com/collections/sharpeners/products/hapstone-rs-knife-sharpener-1

The upgraded unit with extra clamps, an angle cube, driver for the clamp screws etc
https://www.hapstone-usa.com/collections/sharpeners/products/hapstone-rs-black-knife-sharpener

To sharpen your super steels you will need diamond or CBN stones. The most recommended set to start with would likely be these ones. I do believe they need to initially be lapped (as with most of these types of stones). They will last you hundreds of knives as they have a ~1mm thick layer of resin and diamond that slowly breaks down with use and exposes more diamond instead of just wearing out like a plated diamond plate.
https://www.hapstone-usa.com/collec.../venev-set-centaur-series-dual-side-diamond-1

If you want stones that will last you a lifetime then metal bonded diamond/CBN are likely what you want. They are more expensive but they have a 3mm thick layer instead of 1mm. Again, they will initially or eventually need to be lapped with a glass plate and SiC powder.
There is a set of stones here https://www.hapstone-usa.com/collections/stones/products/tools-73
Or you can buy them individually here https://www.hapstone-usa.com/collections/stones/products/hapstone-premium-cbn
If you want to minimize the expense and add more stones later I would suggest starting with 120/240/400 stones. Maybe add in the 800 if you want a bit of a finer edge but the 400 is quite nice.

There is a thread right now going on about this sharpener and metal bonded stones. https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/hapstone-rs-looking-for-user-experiences.1994621

 

[FixedBladesPlus]

Both systems have pros and cons.

With the PPA you get diamond stones from the start so you can sharpen all your knives, but replacements can be hard to find and they are "plated" diamond stones that usually wear out fairly quickly comparatively. There is a reason that upgrades are popular for this system. You can also run into issues with thicker knives not fitting into the clamp and a lot of flex.

With the belt sharpener you won't be able to really sharpen your high end steels since the belts are all aluminum oxide. If you don't know what you are doing you can REALLY mess up your knives. Making them into recurves, rounding over you tips, over heating the edges and reducing their edge holding ability, removing a lot more metal than necessary etc. A lot of people run them way too fast, you really need to slow it down. Belts can get expensive to replace for these smaller sharpeners. That being said if you get the technique down you can sharpen knives very quickly but they will all be convex edge.

If you have a bit more money to spend I would suggest taking a look at the Hapstone RS system. It is around the same size as the PPA but much better and uses Edge Pro format 1x6" stones that have become kind of an industry standard format. The downside is good stones are more expensive and none are included. You can use several clamps at a time instead of 1 clamp on the PPA to better hold your knives, up to ~8" in length and ~6mm (~1/4") in thickness.
The base unit
https://www.hapstone-usa.com/collections/sharpeners/products/hapstone-rs-knife-sharpener-1

The upgraded unit with extra clamps, an angle cube, driver for the clamp screws etc
https://www.hapstone-usa.com/collections/sharpeners/products/hapstone-rs-black-knife-sharpener

To sharpen your super steels you will need diamond or CBN stones. The most recommended set to start with would likely be these ones. I do believe they need to initially be lapped (as with most of these types of stones). They will last you hundreds of knives as they have a ~1mm thick layer of resin and diamond that slowly breaks down with use and exposes more diamond instead of just wearing out like a plated diamond plate.
https://www.hapstone-usa.com/collec.../venev-set-centaur-series-dual-side-diamond-1

If you want stones that will last you a lifetime then metal bonded diamond/CBN are likely what you want. They are more expensive but they have a 3mm thick layer instead of 1mm. Again, they will initially or eventually need to be lapped with a glass plate and SiC powder.
There is a set of stones here https://www.hapstone-usa.com/collections/stones/products/tools-73
Or you can buy them individually here https://www.hapstone-usa.com/collections/stones/products/hapstone-premium-cbn
If you want to minimize the expense and add more stones later I would suggest starting with 120/240/400 stones. Maybe add in the 800 if you want a bit of a finer edge but the 400 is quite nice.

There is a thread right now going on about this sharpener and metal bonded stones. https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/hapstone-rs-looking-for-user-experiences.1994621

I just can't afford that system! Thanks for the detail, though!

 

[joesrx]

I have the professional and the original belt system worksharp sells. The belt system is going to put a convex edge on your knives which is not what all those pictured are. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

The professional does a nice job. The stones work well and replacements ones aren’t that expensive. You can get close to a mirrors edge, if you want. The knives will be sharp.

Down the road you can always by the adapter and get better stones if you want. Not needed, but an option. Has the angle cube (their version) and it puts a reliable and consistent edge. It’s not a bad system at all.

Larger blades you will have to play with it.

Good luck in you decision.

 

[FixedBladesPlus]

I have the professional and the original belt system worksharp sells. The belt system is going to put a convex edge on your knives which is not what all those pictured are. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

The professional does a nice job. The stones work well and replacements ones aren’t that expensive. You can get close to a mirrors edge, if you want. The knives will be sharp.

Down the road you can always by the adapter and get better stones if you want. Not needed, but an option. Has the angle cube (their version) and it puts a reliable and consistent edge. It’s not a bad system at all.

Larger blades you will have to play with it.

Good luck in you decision.

Thanks - I've been leaning towards the Pro PA just for the control. I worry about the risk of cutting too much.

 

[MattWRog]

I just watched this video the other day and offers a decent comparison of the two.

 

[FixedBladesPlus]

I just watched this video the other day and offers a decent comparison of the two.

Those are both the older versions of each.

 

[MattWRog]

Those are both the older versions of each.

True but the merits of both would likely be the same on the newer versions too. There are distinct advantage/disadvantages to both.

 

[FixedBladesPlus]

That was the video that started me down the path! Just trying to compare the newer models!

 

[KenCaz]

I have a work sharp and also several other's including paper wheels, and I ultimately ended up on stones because it is just much more satisfying...!

 

[FixedBladesPlus]

I have a work sharp and also several other's including paper wheels, and I ultimately ended up on stones because it is just much more satisfying...!

I like how the WS systems are consistent.

 

[Guy McVer]

I like how the WS systems are consistent.

Well that's the main trick to sharpening, isn't it? Consistently holding the same angle. You can either do that yourself or you can rely on some gadget to do it for you. As far as sharpening gadgets go, the base version of the Precision Adjust is one of the least egregious, coming in at only 70 US dollars (I recall that it used to be 65, but it looks like the price recently went up). Why not start with that, and upgrade it later as needed? It's a really good deal compared to other similar systems which cost way more money.

 

[TheOne45]

How about something like this if you are on a tight budget:

 

[FixedBladesPlus]

How about something like this if you are on a tight budget:

I bought this one about three months ago. After testing it, I returned it. It's wobbly, flipping larger knives is difficult, and it hits the clamp when sharpening low angles. The one good thing: the sharpening stones are decent, at least in the beginning. At that price. I imagine the stones won't last.

 

[TheOne45]

I bought this one about three months ago. After testing it, I returned it. It's wobbly, flipping larger knives is difficult, and it hits the clamp when sharpening low angles. The one good thing: the sharpening stones are decent, at least in the beginning. At that price. I imagine the stones won't last.

I don't think you will be much happier with Work Sharp Professional Precision Adjust except for the fact it's ''assembled in the USA''.
I have similar clamps on my system with the same width (40 milimeters) and sharpening long thin blades is so to speak impossible because there is no support at both ands - the blade will bend when sharpening. So I made myself a nice magnetic table for long thin kitchen knives. The same goes for sharpening low angles; I don't think you can sharpen lower angles as with the system you didn't like.
Check some videos. This plastic clamp holder also has some give to it when sharpening and there is the same problem with flipping long blades (not enough clearance) or you need to disengage and tilt the thing to flip long knife which is cumbersome in my book.

Regarding stones....
As far as I could see you can get different stones with the sharpener .... whetstones, diamond plates or both. I don't know which one did you get with the sharpener but I have the same cheap diamond plates on plastic backing on my system and they are working just fine for almost 4 years.

So; considering all you wrote my vote goes to hand sharpening -- double sided diamond plate + home made leather strop is all you need. When you learn it there is no faster way to sharpen a knife no matter size or steel. No problem with flipping, wobbling, small angles, give in clamps, .... etc.

 

[Guy McVer]

I don't think you will be much happier with Work Sharp Professional Precision Adjust except for the fact it's ''assembled in the USA''.
I have similar clamps on my system with the same width (40 milimeters) and sharpening long thin blades is so to speak impossible because there is no support at both ands - the blade will bend when sharpening. So I made myself a nice magnetic table for long thin kitchen knives. The same goes for sharpening low angles; I don't think you can sharpen lower angles as with the system you didn't like.

I don't think this is as much of an issue as you're making it out to be. Yes it has limitations, but it isn't intended for the kind of use that you're describing.

Kitchen knives, which are longer and have thinner blades, shouldn't be sharpened on a system like this anyways. And in my opinion, people who need this sort of gadget shouldn't be sharpening at angles lower than 15 degrees per side in the first place.

Still, understanding the purpose and limitations is important. Don't try to use it to sharpen your giant bushcraft knife or your long kitchen knives.

Also, I think this just underscores the value of learning freehand and gaining an understanding of how an edge behaves with different angles, different types of steel, and how a knife handles with different thicknesses of the blade, or why you maybe shouldn't put a 13 degree per side edge on your EDC knife and then try to use it to chop wood.

If you have need for field sharpening, this won't work for you either. Too bulky to carry. That's another limitation that isn't often mentioned at all. If this is the only thing you use to sharpen knives with, then you're probably the type to prefer steels with high edge retention so that you can go longer without having to sharpen them, and be able to wait until you get back to wherever the sharpening rig is stored.

 

[TheOne45]

don't think this is as much of an issue as you're making it out to be. Yes it has limitations, but it isn't intended for the kind of use that you're describing.

It was not my intention to make an issue. The starter of this thread Mr. FixedBladesPlus in his starting post asked which of those two WS systems should he get and mentioned he has limited fund.
I posted a video of low priced system and Mr. FixedBladesPlus replied he tried this system and he listed things he didn't like: '' wobbly, flipping larger knives is difficult, and it hits the clamp when sharpening low angles ''.

I was trying to say Work Sharp Professional Precision Adjust and also all other systems out there have more or less same issues. But there is one more issue with WS system. It has 40 milimeters (or so) wide clamps. On system like Hapston R2, Kazak or other similar systems (and also on this cheap system in video I posted) you can put the clamps apart and make a better support for long thin blades. You can't do this on WS system so sharpening long blades could be a problem if the blade is not thick enough to support itself .... it will bend at the ends when sharpening.
Thats all I was trying to say .... or with other words .... if Mr. FixedBladesPlus decided to get this Work Sharp Professional Precision Adjust he will probably have the same issues as he described he had with this cheap system: wobbly, flipping larger knives is difficult, and it hits the clamp when sharpening low angles + you can't put the clamps apart.

Still, understanding the purpose and limitations is important.

That's why I made myself two sharpening systems.
First system has similar clamps as WS system. On this system I sharpen EDC and Opinel knives and I can also sharpen long fixed blade knives if the blade is thick enough not to bend when sharpening.
The second one is modular. I can switch modules depending on what I want to sharpen: wide magnetic table for long thin knives (I can do down to 11 degrees per side); small magnetic table for very small blades I can not clamp in my first system; clamps for sharpening scissors and attachment for true scandi grind (I can go down to 6 degrees per side).

Also, I think this just underscores the value of learning freehand

Well; some folks don't want to learn freehand or they have only basic motoric skills and they can't do it or they have those expensive knives and they like to put on them those perfectly symmetric highly polished edges with exact angle measured with digital angle meter with 2 or 3 digits precision or there is some other reason.

and gaining an understanding of how an edge behaves with different angles

I do freehand but haven't figured out yet how to measure and achieve a specific sharpening angle. I just sharpen by feeling or trying to maintain the angle I made with my guiding system.
I'm also not sure how accurate someone can maintain the angle when freehand sharpening ... +/-1 degree .... less .... more accurate?
I don't use those big desk stones much. I just sharpen my knives on one of my field sharpeners with 10cmx2cm or 15cmx2cm (centimeters) large diamond plates .... sharpener in left hand and knife in right hand. Because this is not rock steady I assume I have somehow convex edges but I don't care.

If you have need for field sharpening, this won't work for you either. Too bulky to carry.

I wonder how many forum members actually go out there on the fields and come to a situation they need to sharpen their knives.
Wherever I go and I take my fixed blade knife with me I also take one of my field sharpeners. The only exception are one of those ''1 hour walks'' through the woods with my better half and my dog.

 

[Guy McVer]

I do freehand but haven't figured out yet how to measure and achieve a specific sharpening angle. I just sharpen by feeling or trying to maintain the angle I made with my guiding system.

A bevel gauge is a piece of metal or plastic, usually in a circular shape, with different cutouts corresponding to different angles. You put your knife in a slot to match up the angle. You could probably make one with a pencil/pen, a protractor, a straight edge, a piece of cardboard, and something to cut with (scissors or a box cutter).

I'm also not sure how accurate someone can maintain the angle when freehand sharpening ... +/-1 degree .... less .... more accurate?

I'm like you with regards to this. I don't worry about it. I get results and that's what matters. I use my knives and I don't obsess about them being perfect.