Trying to understand why, so let's discuss it

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Hickory n steel

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It seems to me that the average suburbanite may have a lot more boxes to open in a week but overall not face any materials that are any tougher to cut than say 50-60 years ago, so I'm try to understand why the modern folder is so accepted as the idea of what a pocket knife should be when it's typically larger in every dimension than your typical traditional slipjoint.
Google " pocket knife " and the top results will be modern types.
I understand the clips and studs, those are absolutely convenient but the overall form factor and idea that strength is important is what confuses me.
I know what it's like when you pick up a knife and it feels so great in hand, but I also know what it's like to use an extra small peanut class knife and not even think about how it feels in hand when I'm using it.

I'd love to hear some thoughts and opinions on why modern knives are what they are.

I have already made an inquiry in the Buck section as to some early literature and such on the Buck 110 to truly understand this knife which inadvertently paved the way ( I have two, but never really thought too deeply about why I accepted the size without question ), here I'm just trying to understand why even the little ones are larger in most dimensions than an equivalent traditional.
 
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I think we're seeing the same kind of "feature creep" that you see on other consumer goods (stops to glare at automotive industry). Somebody adds a "feature" to their knives, and whether it actually benefits the user or not, everybody else on the market research side of the table decides that they better have that, too. So somebody different, looking for a way to make their knives stand out, adds another "feature". Wash, rinse, repeat, with thumb ramps, opener holes, springs, seatbelt cutters, partial serrations in a dizzying array of shapes, ornamental fasteners, and whatever else you can think of to make your knife stand out from the crowd.

Is some of it helpful? Yes. Lockbar inserts, overtravel stops, screws instead of pins, and even the Lake & Walker Knife Safety (the original, anyway), which I really liked. But mostly it's more shiny to attract customers' attention.
 
It seems to me that the average suburbanite may have a lot more boxes to open in a week but overall not face any materials that are any tougher to cut than say 50-60 years ago, so I'm try to understand why the modern folder is so accepted as the idea of what a pocket knife should be when it's typically larger in every dimension than your typical traditional slipjoint.
Google " pocket knife " and the top results will be modern types.
I understand the clips and studs, those are absolutely convenient but the overall form factor and idea that strength is important is what confuses me.
I know what it's like when you pick up a knife and it feels so great in hand, but I also know what it's like to use an extra small peanut class knife and not even think about how it feels in hand when I'm using it.

I'd love to hear some thoughts and opinions on why modern knives are what they are.

I have already made an inquiry in the Buck section as to some early literature and such on the Buck 110 to truly understand this knife which inadvertently paved the way ( I have two, but never really thought too deeply about why I accepted the size without question ), here I'm just trying to understand why even the little ones are larger in most dimensions than an equivalent traditional.

I can’t speak for everyone, but for me it’s nice to have something overbuilt and hand-filling I suppose. 99% of my knife usages don’t really require the over-the-top strength of a Tri-Ad lock, but it’s confidence-inspiring to have the knowledge of your knife capable of taking some punishment. I rarely go outside without my Recon 1 clipped to my pocket.

Is it an excuse to do dumb, reckless things with your knife? Absolutely not. Tri-Ad lock or not, everything has a breaking point. The strength and durability factors are just welcome redundancies.

That being said, I appreciate the timeless designs of traditionals. They’re like the classic muscle cars or single-action cowboy revolvers. They’ll always be useful and will never go out of style. The tacticool comes and goes but the traditional is here to stay.
 
I think we're seeing the same kind of "feature creep" that you see on other consumer goods (stops to glare at automotive industry). Somebody adds a "feature" to their knives, and whether it actually benefits the user or not, everybody else on the market research side of the table decides that they better have that, too. So somebody different, looking for a way to make their knives stand out, adds another "feature". Wash, rinse, repeat, with thumb ramps, opener holes, springs, seatbelt cutters, partial serrations in a dizzying array of shapes, ornamental fasteners, and whatever else you can think of to make your knife stand out from the crowd.

Is some of it helpful? Yes. Lockbar inserts, overtravel stops, screws instead of pins, and even the Lake & Walker Knife Safety (the original, anyway), which I really liked. But mostly it's more shiny to attract customers' attention.
Good observation. Ultimately, it’s up to you as the consumer to decide which features matter to you.
 
I carry modem folders because they're convenient; but I also carry a traditional and (when I can) a fixed blade. I've long felt that fixed blades with 3.5-4" blades were the ideal size for me...at last in part because the handles fit my hand. Accordingly, that is my preferred size in folders; and the pocket clip allows even that sized knife to sit unnoticed in my pocket.
I don't like larger traditionals, however, because they don't sit as nicely in my pocket. My preferred size in a traditional is a Buck 501 or GEC 77.... though I appreciate the 73, 92, and 56 almost as much. For whatever it may be worth, I carry single blade knives almost exclusively.
I think a lot of younger (than me) people started with modern folders; so that's what they're used to. Add in the fidget factor that many speak of (and obsess upon), and traditionals are off the table for them.
 
With my modern space age pockets and atomic energy gewgaws those small knives tend to get lost in the litter so I need something big that I can find when I need it.
 
I think a lot of younger (than me) people started with modern folders; so that's what they're used to. Add in the fidget factor that many speak of (and obsess upon), and traditionals are off the table for them.
I think that's where It's different for me, when really getting into knives as a teenager modern types were all I used and carried, but for some reason the traditionals always spoke to me as something I liked to have and appreciate.
The modern was always the primary knife if I even carried one of the small two handed folders , but I still liked them.
I always found it strange that I was never totally dismissive of traditionals even though I grew up in the modern knife world where a modern folder is what a pocket knife now is, I even had a chance to be impressioned by knife videos on YouTube in my late in my teens
I know a number of people who started in the modern knife world like I did and won't even consider a smaller two handed knife.
Maybe they'll change their mind, but a modern folder is simply what a pocket knife is to them.
 
It’s just, at least to some extent, basic evolution. Materials, manufacturing, ergonomic understanding, use, public perception, they all evolve to get us to where we are today.

Way back when, you carried a ‘traditional’ for mundane tasks. If you needed more cutting ability, or just a bigger knife, you used a fixed blade. You had one or the other. It was probably (just speculation on my part) much more acceptable to carry a fixed blade in public.

Then, not so long ago, the Buck 110, and similar, became the standard. Small enough to carry every day, but big and tough enough to take on more rigorous tasks. For the average user, it bridged the gap. I remember growing up in the 70’s, every adult male I knew had a 110, or clone, in a pouch on his belt. (If not, an SAK of some sort, but this speaks more to modern MTs). I really believe this set the standard for pocket knife size, especially once guys started ditching the pouch.

Then comes Spyderco with the pocket clip. Add in more durable handle materials, different steels, designers paying more attention to how the knife fits in hand, more precision machining techniques, etc, etc. and you get the general template for a modern, usable knife.

I get why people enjoy traditionals, but modern knives have become the norm because they are, arguably, a more versatile design. Locking up to mimick a fixed blade, while folding up to fit in your pocket. Scales that require no maintenance. Steels that rarely need sharpened. One handed operation for ease of use. It all makes sense for the average user who is opening boxes one day, bags of mulch the next, then scraping paint or stripping wire afterwards.

Think of it like the modern SUV/CUV. May not be perfect for any one thing, but it’s a jack of all trades, and does most things you’d need a vehicle for on a regular bases.
 
My first real pocket knife was a buck squire. It basically stayed in my pocket and wasn’t used much unless I was not at work. Stripping knives, hawkbill knives, or utility knives were all I used at work. When I started to discover pocket clips and one hand opening on modern folders, that’s when I started getting into knives more. The convenience of them is what drew me in. Two hand opening in my line of work is not ideal. It can be done don’t get me wrong. Since I’ve started carrying and using modern folders I haven’t used anything else very much at all. My Buck sits in a drawer for sentimental reasons.

I want a locking knife as well. A slipjoint is not my preferred work knife. I scrape often with the spine and I don’t want to worry about it folding on me. Stab, poke, pry, push and pull with my blades a lot and a slipjoint just doesn’t fit that bill for me. Good for a secondary knife tho. I carry a Alox electrician everyday in my right pocket paired with a large Crk in my left.

Then on to size. I have always preferred the large CRKs. I have wondered here lately if I just never gave the small 21 enough of a chance. Yes I could accomplish the same tasks and get the same end results with the small compared to the large. But when I put them in hand a large Crk just feels right. Give me a large inlayed Inkosi and it just locks right into my hand in every way.

As J jaseman stated above it makes sense for all around user, one day opening boxes, next day mulch, and the next day stripping wire. I fit in that category.
 
It’s just, at least to some extent, basic evolution. Materials, manufacturing, ergonomic understanding, use, public perception, they all evolve to get us to where we are today.

Way back when, you carried a ‘traditional’ for mundane tasks. If you needed more cutting ability, or just a bigger knife, you used a fixed blade. You had one or the other. It was probably (just speculation on my part) much more acceptable to carry a fixed blade in public.

Then, not so long ago, the Buck 110, and similar, became the standard. Small enough to carry every day, but big and tough enough to take on more rigorous tasks. For the average user, it bridged the gap. I remember growing up in the 70’s, every adult male I knew had a 110, or clone, in a pouch on his belt. (If not, an SAK of some sort, but this speaks more to modern MTs). I really believe this set the standard for pocket knife size, especially once guys started ditching the pouch.

Then comes Spyderco with the pocket clip. Add in more durable handle materials, different steels, designers paying more attention to how the knife fits in hand, more precision machining techniques, etc, etc. and you get the general template for a modern, usable knife.

I get why people enjoy traditionals, but modern knives have become the norm because they are, arguably, a more versatile design. Locking up to mimick a fixed blade, while folding up to fit in your pocket. Scales that require no maintenance. Steels that rarely need sharpened. One handed operation for ease of use. It all makes sense for the average user who is opening boxes one day, bags of mulch the next, then scraping paint or stripping wire afterwards.

Think of it like the modern SUV/CUV. May not be perfect for any one thing, but it’s a jack of all trades, and does most things you’d need a vehicle for on a regular bases.

This

If remember, Spyderco pretty much changed the game. I think it was around the same time that thumb studs started to appear also.
For the most part, every one else at the time, late seventies early eighties? was still making 'traditional' folders, even Cold Steel. Buck 110 was boss.
Kershaw coming up along with Gerber.
I think it took a while for the pocket clip and that hole to catch on, but once it did it took off and paved the way for the 'modern' folder.
Pocket clip, one handed open, steel scales, serrations, etc. all came from Spyderco.
May have been some custom folks doing it, but Spyderco brought it main stream. The newfangled knife became de rigueur and everyone had to catch up.
I believe that's how you got the gap between 'traditional' and 'modern.'
I got out of knives sometime late eighties and I can't say I was surprised when I saw what had happened in the mid nineties when I came back.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I remember it.
 
It's not just knives, look at all the trucks and SUV's. I think it's a societal thing with this simply being a symbol of a far larger (pardon the pun) trend.
 
I forgot to mention also: John Rambo and Jimmy Lile.
Knives were an even smaller niche thing until First Blood (1982), then everybody needed a honking big blade!
I think this brought the closet knife admirer out into the open because then it became cool to carry a knife.
"Who do you think you are? Rambo?" was the catch phrase.
I noticed even women were interested in checking the hardware and a few more custom makers showed up at the gun shows.
I think EVERY maker had some kind of hollow handle survival knife (Buckmaster?) to capitalize on the popularity of Lile's now iconic knife.
I want to say that blade design also became more aggressive too, but I only base that on what I was selling.

I need to add this: Al Mar (he worked for Pete Gerber) was just becoming more visible and his stuff was the sh!t! Sort of like old meets new as his stuff was breaking new ground in knife design. East meets west stuff! Okay, Cold Steel too. All that tanto stuff started to appear around the same time. Those of you who don't know who Al Mar is should look him up. The real deal, some kind of Green Beret with I think a degree in industrial design from Art Center College (you gotta be like freakin good to go there!). I mention Mar and Cold Steel for most folders were still 'conventional' blades; clips, drops, sheeps, etc. Cold Steel made folding san mai tantos and Al Mar had the SERE. Both I think ushered in a new era of folders.


While yes progress was inevitable, I also think it was a combination of factors that got knives to where they are now. Or at least it was accelerated.
I was just thinking, any one know when the first flipper appeared?
I only remember thumb studs.
 
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The current run of GEC 23s is larger than many modern knives. Spyderco has a nice selection of small yet extremely functional modern knives to check out.
 
I forgot to mention also: John Rambo and Jimmy Lile.
Knives were an even smaller niche thing until First Blood (1982), then everybody needed a honking big blade!
I think this brought the closet knife admirer out into the open because then it became cool to carry a knife.
"Who do you think you are? Rambo?" was the catch phrase.
I noticed even women were interested in checking the hardware and a few more custom makers showed up at the gun shows.
I think EVERY maker had some kind of hollow handle survival knife (Buckmaster?) to capitalize on the popularity of Lile's now iconic knife.
I want to say that blade design also became more aggressive too, but I only base that on what I was selling.

I need to add this: Al Mar (he worked for Pete Gerber) was just becoming more visible and his stuff was the sh!t! Sort of like old meets new as his stuff was breaking new ground in knife design. East meets west stuff! Okay, Cold Steel too. All that tanto stuff started to appear around the same time. Those of you who don't know who Al Mar is should look him up. The real deal, some kind of Green Beret with I think a degree in industrial design from Art Center College (you gotta be like freakin good to go there!). I mention Mar and Cold Steel for most folders were still 'conventional' blades; clips, drops, sheeps, etc. Cold Steel made folding san mai tantos and Al Mar had the SERE. Both I think ushered in a new era of folders.


While yes progress was inevitable, I also think it was a combination of factors that got knives to where they are now. Or at least it was accelerated.
I was just thinking, any one know when the first flipper appeared?
I only remember thumb studs.
Heck yeah, First Blood’s a classic.
 
Why focus on pocket knives? Literally everything in society has changed drastically in the last 50 years.

Only farmers drove pickup trucks.

Milk was delivered to your door step.

You didn’t wear T shirts in public, let alone sweatpants or even shorts. Or sneakers for that matter.

Kids walked to school (uphill both ways). The boys wore a shirt and tie.

Plus all the old stuff is still available. Not like it got replaced. We just have more options. For the car analogy. It’s like you can still buy a new 57 Chevy or buy a Tesla.

For me personally. My tastes haven’t changed. I got my first knife when I was 6, almost 50 years ago. The knives I liked then I still like.
 
I remember now I had a small front flipper; don't remember who made it though. Gerber? Kershaw?
Whatever. Flippers were out and about around that same time.
 
I'm old enough to remember when thumb studs were first introduced on folders.
I looked at the pictures , read the descriptions in catalogs and still couldn't understand the advantage.
The point is, products have to evolve and a "need" must be created for the consumer, even if one doesn't exist.
 
Plus all the old stuff is still available. Not like it got replaced. We just have more options. For the car analogy. It’s like you can still buy a new 57 Chevy or buy a Tesla.
My thoughts are that if they can make a traditional knife ( a true traditional knife ) with modern materials that still looks the same, why does a Tesla have to be so damn ugly ?
You know, why can't it be modern on the inside but look like a '68 Pontiac GTO on the outside.
 
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