Trying to understand why, so let's discuss it

[marcus52AR]

I think the pocket clip had a lot to do with the increasing size of modern folders. I don't see anyone carrying a Millie clipless in the bottom front pocket.

 

[rover]

I have a bunch of old Schrade stockmans that never get carried because they end up at sideways at the bottom of my pocket. My giant Olamic rainmaker is about as thick as the stockman and don't sit all wierd at the bottom of my wranglers. If anything, larger knives carry better clipless.

 

[ScooterG]

Heres my assessment so far.

First half of the 1900's, balisongs were the main folders carried for the " cool " factor.
Then in 1964 the Buck 110 takes the world by storm and becomes one of the most copied specific folding knives ever.

In the 80's spyderco, first blood, and mall ninjas

1990's tactical folders became a thing

Now most folding knives in the US are modern.

I understand that people like modern folders and I understand what people like about them, but theres still a question in my mind.

The materials an average person cuts during the day haven't changed much, but people's expectations of a pocket knife mostly have and I wonder why.

So is the answer really just that people think they're cool and have gotten used to them ?

Did a lot more people carry belt knives until knives started to become " frowned upon " ?

It's just human nature. We don't make things that just work. We make things that work and then think about how to improve them, how to make the cooler, how to make them more fun, more useful, useful in additional ways and on and on.

Look at beer. Humans didn't just stop at the first accidental(?) batch and say, "ok...we figured out how to get drunk...good enough". No, we made lagers and pilsners and pale ales and IPA and porters and stouts and then double IPA and then triple and why not imperial heck how about quadruple...ok, now hazy or west coast or east coast and on and on.

Take any invention that humans have come up with and you hardly ever find something that was ever "good enough". Pretty impressive for a bunch of monkeys with sticks.

 

[vjb.knife]

Addressing the OP, I don't understand why you think that cutting open boxes is a task that everyone performs with their knife. I have not opened a box with my carry knife in a long time. That is what a utility knife is for. I have tasks at work that I use my work carry knives for that a small knife would be destroyed by. I work on a Submarine and several surface vessels, obviously in a marine environment. I cut rope up to two inch in thickness, reinforced rubber matting, deck matrial gasket material, tarps, fishing nets, fishing line, wire, pump and engine hoses, etc., etc. When I am off work I usually carry one medium sized knife for normal cutting tasks and one large knife that does not get used to cut anything but is kept extremely sharp. I don't consider traditional slipjoints to be safe for any of these tasks, I do have a Victorinox Camper model that goes along on camping and hiking trips and is marginally acceptable for minor tasks. Heavy duty lockback knives have been around for at least 40 years, and there are reasons that they are needed and liked. I do also have a small Victorinox Classic on my keychain for trimming fingernails and performing minor surgery, removing splinters, cleaning cuts, etc.

 

[Mistman68]

Most traditional's just aren't made for any kind of hard use. My 1st knife was given to my by my uncle, an old timer w/a broken main blade that was filed down to about 1 1/2 inches. I carried it a year or so when I was 8, just before I got my 1st new knife, a Camillus Boy Scout knife (still have it). I cut the crap out of myself w/the Camillus a couple times when the blade folded up on me, stitches were required. Most of the old guys I knew who used traditionals (over fixies) had either sharpened them til the blade was a shadow of itself or had at least one blade w/a broken tip or was completely broken off. Most of the ones I see posted here are rather pristine, obviously not users and are indeed beauties. It doesn't take much time on the farm to work a traditional down, as a letter opener or apple peeler they work great. When I did use them the blades would chip up and dull mightily with not much apparent abuse. Moderns took care of most of my issues w/traditional's. I still carry a little Case toothpick once in a while for light duty stuff but believe it or not a modern folder will do that stuff too, not all are over built hunks of titanium (though I do like those)

 

[Eli Chaps]

Heres my assessment so far.

First half of the 1900's, balisongs were the main folders carried for the " cool " factor.
Then in 1964 the Buck 110 takes the world by storm and becomes one of the most copied specific folding knives ever.

In the 80's spyderco, first blood, and mall ninjas

1990's tactical folders became a thing

Now most folding knives in the US are modern.

I understand that people like modern folders and I understand what people like about them, but theres still a question in my mind.

The materials an average person cuts during the day haven't changed much, but people's expectations of a pocket knife mostly have and I wonder why.

So is the answer really just that people think they're cool and have gotten used to them ?

Did a lot more people carry belt knives until knives started to become " frowned upon " ?

People gave three pages of answers prior to you posting this.

I'll summarize my thoughts, modern knives are functionally superior to traditional knives in every way. I like traditional knives but I don't pretend that they are just as good as modern knives. I spent a year going back to exclusively carrying traditionals. Yes, they got the tasks done but the one I most continuously steeled on was the Case MiniCopperlock, which, surprise, is more modern than traditional.

 

[Lesknife]

Now that I’m older and some arthritis flare ups and my hand strength isn’t what it used to be I have trouble handling a peanut sized knife. A 3 1/4 inch folder is about as small as I can deal with for now. A larger knife is in all regards is more capable except in small constricting spaces and is usually a lot stronger.

I think in the early 1900s there were a lot of women that used a small folding knife they stashed in their apron pocket for the small chores. My grandma was one of them and she didn’t loan it out to anyone. If you needed something cut she’d do it for you. And I’ve seen other grannies doing the same, it was very common. Also a lot of youngsters were working back then and a small knife suited them just as well. Times change and lifestyle changes with them. In the 1860s thru the 1880s a sizable portion of men liked to carry a larger folder that would carry in a coat pocket. I’ve seen many examples of 4 inch blades in a 5.5 inch folder with various blade types but a spear point was very common. My great grandpa used his for everything from hunting/ skinning, cutting corn, rope, leather, spreading butter, opening cans, and anything that he could use it for. I think he carried a small jackknife to for smaller tasks but he did a lot of heavy work and he had a big butcher knife around as well as many farm families did back then.

 

[mendezj]

Mendezj, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but LUDT (in name) is about as tactical/special ops as you can get.

Just a name. At least the UDT (underwater demolition team) part of the name is. The knife? Well, I wouldn’t want an auto knife with spring and all when working in salt water. Which kind’a is my point. I love the little knife, though. The blade is great, gets razor sharp easily, holds the edge, very light... A practical knife for the home operator.

 

[Hickory n steel]

I'm starting to realize that since I'm not into modern folders, I just can't really talk about them without sounding negative.
I have my opinions and don't plan to ever go back to modern folders, and I suppose that right there probably doomed this thread from the start.

I was trying to understand why / how our society let modern folders become what a pocket knife generally is now, but I guess whoever said I should just forget about it and go bskc to enjoying my traditional knives was right and that's what I'll do.

 

[MolokaiRider]

You’re fine no worries.

The world is full of people who enjoy all sorts of things.

Modern and traditional knives are both still popular thankfully.

It’s pretty awesome to have so many options.

 

[Andy the Aussie]

It seems to me that the average suburbanite may have a lot more boxes to open in a week but overall not face any materials that are any tougher to cut than say 50-60 years ago, so I'm try to understand why the modern folder is so accepted as the idea of what a pocket knife should be when it's typically larger in every dimension than your typical traditional slipjoint.

..... different strokes for different folks. What you like is not wrong nor is what another likes. I grew up surrounded by role models (great uncles and uncles) who were working Stockmen (you would call them cowboys) and they all carried a "traditional" folder, as did I right through school, can't say they ever excited me beyond picking my nails. I actually wish I knew where the couple of Old Timers I had then were now, they just sort of got cast away. My first locking blade knife, can't even recall what it was, in the late 70s or very early 80s made folders appealing. I still prefer a fixed blade knife for about any task but the convenience of a folder is hard to beat. As for modern, I certainly can't say I like them all but I have a few ZTs but think a CRK 21/25 are about perfect in their lines and looks.

You know, why can't it be modern on the inside but look like a '68 Pontiac GTO on the outside.

....because that is not what the majority want....same reason they stopped making the 68 Ponitac body shape, taste and the market changed.

You do you.

..... this is the most important thing. No need to apologise for or criticise what you or anyone else likes !!!! It's like Redheads or Brunettes.

Also, they don't make pontiacs any more for a reason...

......once they stopped you lot over there getting the G8 you knew the brand was doomed...

 

[Sunyata]

It's all what you need in the moment. Two years ago I helped a family member move with my grandfather. After the first hour of cutting boxes, tape and zip ties he realized the difference between his traditional and my PM2 and asked to borrow it for a while.

 

[Dcdavis]

I'm starting to realize that since I'm not into modern folders, I just can't really talk about them without sounding negative.
I have my opinions and don't plan to ever go back to modern folders, and I suppose that right there probably doomed this thread from the start.

I was trying to understand why / how our society let modern folders become what a pocket knife generally is now, but I guess whoever said I should just forget about it and go bskc to enjoying my traditional knives was right and that's what I'll do.

Nothing wrong with enjoying your traditionals at all. Lots of folks do. Lots of folks enjoy fixed blades and lots of folks enjoy modern one handed locking folders. That’s what makes the world go round. Just for me I need a knife that locks. With my day to day tasks it wouldn’t be the smartest thing to use primarily a slipjoint. When I’m hanging off an extension ladder on the side of a building 24 foot in the air and one hand is holding something else I don’t need a two handed opener. I don’t like to carry the Klein fixed blade stripping knife on a belt sheath like a lot of electricians do. If traditionals made my day to day easier that’s what I’d go with, but they don’t. They’re going to hinder me more than help. Just personally for me a traditional doesn’t fit what I want or need. Don’t get me wrong I love how most traditionals look. There’s a lot of history and nostalgia to them. Now around the house or regular mundane tasks, they work just fine. For work, I need a one hand opening, pocket clip, locking folder. Truth be told a fixed blade would probably be best. It just progression and giving people many options to fit their needs and wants

Years ago I used to thread rigid conduit with a hand crank model. Now I’ve got a threader with an electric motor on it. Makes my life a lot easier pulling a trigger compared to pulling my back out all day.

 

[stabman]

"Back in my day, all we needed was a sharp rock...damn this new-fangled copper craze!"

I like new things. New is often nice.
I also made a stone axe myself, and rehafted a 1000 year old stone axe head and chopped down a small tree with it.
Why? Why not?

And that is the real answer to this thread and many of the others we have here: Why not?

 

[Danke42]

Wait I think I get it now!! Why is new stuff better than old stuff?

My Ladybug is smaller and lighter than the Case Peanut. The steel is sharper and a absolutely stainless (H1) and easy to keep sharp.

I can open in with one hand so I don't have to put down what I"m cutting while I get my knife open and it stays locked open safely till I'm done. The handle is extremely grippy and resists breaking or generally falling apart.

That's why I use it. Old muscle cars are cool, WWI era biplanes are awesome, old knives will still cut stuff but for the day to day use it's much more about getting the job done vs. making some kind of hipster statement about knives.

And I'd have to hazard a guess most of us are posting on here with media devices less than a decade old vs. a 1960s punchcard computer.

 

[Hickory n steel]

"Back in my day, all we needed was a sharp rock...damn this new-fangled copper craze!"

I like new things. New is often nice.
I also made a stone axe myself, and rehafted a 1000 year old stone axe head and chopped down a small tree with it.
Why? Why not?

And that is the real answer to this thread and many of the others we have here: Why not?

That's probably why I had a matching set of assisted openers that looked like spiders.
Why not buy all 5 colors, they were cheap enough.

 

[Danke42]

"Back in my day, all we needed was a sharp rock...damn this new-fangled copper craze!"

I like new things. New is often nice.
I also made a stone axe myself, and rehafted a 1000 year old stone axe head and chopped down a small tree with it.
Why? Why not?

And that is the real answer to this thread and many of the others we have here: Why not?

You had sharp rocks growing? Luxury!

 

[stabman]

You had sharp rocks growing? Luxury!

 

[jideta]

Another thing to consider is that perhaps modern designs were on the board but could not be executed until manufacturing/fabrication technology caught up to them.
Up until the 90s it was belt sander and files. Again maybe some modern designs/concepts were out there, but they were just too expensive and time consuming to create (I make some things I would not/can not sell because I would not be able to get what I got in it back).
Now you got CNC, water jets, laser, etc all helping to make your/the makers knife dreams come true. Hell even high school got computer plasma cutters!
Knives got here because technology allowed them to get here.

Again, back in the day, most custom makers were making really nice stuff, but for the most part they were still 'users.' The Jimmy Lile knife was awesome but still a knife made to be used.
Somewhere along the line knife making moved into high art, a place where knives were only made to be seen, not used.
Now we see these 'high end' knives made more for art than utilitarian use while still having a sense of ergonomics.

That alone is an interesting evolution as not too many utilitarian objects make it that far! Using the automobile, think from Model T to Supercar...
Remember, the knife or cutting tool was probably one of the first tools invented.
What would say, the hammer/adze look like if it took the same evolutionary path?

I find myself regressing also.
Sold all my midtech stuff and went to fixed.

I would consider the evolution of the knife an excellent design study!
Someone probably has already written a book about it...

 

[Hickory n steel]

Wait I think I get it now!! Why is new stuff better than old stuff?

My Ladybug is smaller and lighter than the Case Peanut. The steel is sharper and a absolutely stainless (H1) and easy to keep sharp.

I can open in with one hand so I don't have to put down what I"m cutting while I get my knife open and it stays locked open safely till I'm done. The handle is extremely grippy and resists breaking or generally falling apart.

That's why I use it. Old muscle cars are cool, WWI era biplanes are awesome, old knives will still cut stuff but for the day to day use it's much more about getting the job done vs. making some kind of hipster statement about knives.

And I'd have to hazard a guess most of us are posting on here with media devices less than a decade old vs. a 1960s punchcard computer.

You mean why do some people think new is automatically better when old still gets the job done as well as anything
I'm not trying to make any kind of statement with my traditional knives at all, just like I assume you're not trying to make some kind of statement with your " better " one handed folder.
My small traditional knives are merely as much as I need in a pocket knife.
I simply do not value the same things in a knife that you do, all the benefits you list are not things I'm concerned with at all.
Don't need much grip, my little knives don't break , don't fold on me, and my carbon steel doesn't rust on me.


Btw just because someone appreciates some modern technology or some old school technology does not mean they have to be 100% one way or the other.
I like the HD flat screen TV but I cannot stand smart TVs.
,Love led flashlights but hate having various modes, there are many areas where some modern technology Is fine but I have a limit to what I'll accept.