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Turning Over a New Leaf - Is It Possible?

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by OrangeBlueOrangeBlue, Apr 1, 2019.

  1. Can a company that's long been the preeminent source for "high-end clones" (particularly $200-300 copies of Russian flippers with actual M390 and multi-row ceramic bearings), go "legit"? Apparently, this company (if you know the name, the thread title becomes a horrendous pun) has released some new original designs through its favored internet retail sites (which, for the record, do not demonstrate they've learned anything about design from making clones). Is a company like this shifting to a "legit" business model a good thing?

    On the one hand, the company has a reputation for pretty unimpeachable quality, and having more factories capable of producing high-quality goods is a positive thing (a slippie with M390 and a titanium body for $75 can't be bad for the market, can it?). On the other hand, they have made their place for years by copying from others, which is pretty sketchy, and aren't necessarily going to stop.

    I know many enthusiasts will reject them based solely on their business history. If we do that, do they have any incentive to even try to change?
  2. marcinek


    Jan 9, 2007
    What company?
  3. Danke42


    Feb 10, 2015
    Short answer no.

    Long answer no; anyone who builds the foundations of their success on theft and lies isn't to be trusted.

    Leopards never change their spots.
  4. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    marcinek likes this.
  5. GronK

    GronK Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 1, 2001
  6. NathanSr

    NathanSr Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 16, 2010
    If this company broke bad from the beginning, who is to say they won’t revert back to their old ways at some point?
    Lapedog likes this.
  7. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    Or even stopped. There are more than a few companies that do both (that we know of).
    danbot likes this.
  8. Green Thorn

    Absolutely no guarantee they wouldn't go back. Probably the only way they actually leave cloning behind is that they make as much or more money from original designs (likely impossible if their new releases are any indication). If they actually came out with something compelling, it might be possible, but that requires people who are willing to buy it.
  9. Stumpy72

    Stumpy72 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 5, 2018
    Green Thorn makes their living from their clone activities. The probability of their going straight, getting and staying respectable is zero. They may test the waters, but when they realize the operating expenses and the degree of competition in the legitimate market, they’ll fold their hand and go back to what they’ve always done.
    uxo2, BBW and danbot like this.
  10. sam eib

    sam eib

    Apr 16, 2017
  11. danbot

    danbot Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 31, 2009
  12. CdnMitch


    Jan 12, 2019
    I have noticed many current folding knife manufacturers got their start by making scales or other modified parts for existing current production knives from other manufacturers and then move into their own models. This is such an honest and wonderful approach in my opinion. I have yet to see a company that has gone from making sheer knockoffs, progress to a point where they are making original designs and are regarded as a quality or respectable company.

    Maybe with all the practice they got copying other people’s designs they will be able to make an excellent product, however, I do feel this will always tarnish their reputation.
  13. SeppukuSamurai


    Aug 19, 2014
    So, hypothetically, if they actually went straight and stayed straight I'd probably forgive and forget. But it would take some effort.

    If we aren't willing/able to forgive the transgressions of others there is absolutely no incentive to ever change and get better.

    Most of the time, those that employ the greatest scrutiny are often the ones in need of it the most. I'm not going to ignore anyone's effort, especially when it's genuine.
  14. NorthernSouthpaw

    NorthernSouthpaw Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 27, 2014
    I would say no.
    BUT.. does anyone really know how the foundations of companies like WE, Reate & Kizer were built? Is there actually a paper trail that shows they have legitimate origins?
    All it would take was a name change and viola! "Ganzo is evil, but xxx company is legit because they use original designs" While it's very possible both are made at the same factory. and we are none the wiser.

    I'm asking more than stating any opinion, but it is something I think about.
    Pharmagator and Sonnydaze like this.
  15. Sonnydaze

    Sonnydaze Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 6, 2009
    My opinion is "no." Northern raises a excellent point, but I'll have to go on what is already known.
  16. WE is made in the same factory as Wayeah Knives and Tools, who are (were? Their site has gone dark) a massive manufacturer of gas station knives as well as OEM for some other brands (most infamously, they were the manufacturer for Quartermaster’s “Made in USA” products). It’s unclear whether WE spun off entirely or is a subsidiary/sub-brand. Either way, WE’s reputation has risen to the point that a lot of well-respected designers will use them for mid-tech and production versions of their knives (same goes for Kizer and Reate).
  17. Mo2


    Apr 8, 2016
    Why are we even having this conversation? They arnt going to go legit. I mean ganzo isn't even going legit. So lock down the thread. I can't believe your even asking this. A forum and it's members are deeply against clones and for good reasons too.
    Night Rider likes this.
  18. Phixt


    May 28, 2016
    "Green Thorn Zero Tolerance 0456 Tactical Folding Knife 100% real..." $48.74-59.43.

    April 'Fus!
    Night Rider likes this.
  19. Night Rider

    Night Rider Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 16, 2018
    What Mo2 said ^ Lock it.
    Mo2 likes this.
  20. Pharmagator

    Pharmagator Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 17, 2010

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