TW-90 110V vs 220V

samuraistuart

samuraistuart

Joined
Dec 21, 2006
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I've been given Victor's vector and Clarence's clearance, roger Roger, to order a TW-90 grinder, but am at a crossroads. He offers 110V and 220V, and I think the only difference is the power cord. His website says, "Choose which power cord you want wired, motor will run either 110V or 220V".

Just moved into a house (rental), there is of course no 220V plug in the garage, there is one in the laundry room (dryer), completely on the opposite side of the house. I would like to have the 220V, 2HP, but this would necessitate asking permission from the home owners to have 220V plug installed. Breaker box is in the garage, but it is full. No empty breaker slots. If I got permission, I would have to hire an electrician (code) to wire that (I know enough about electricity to fry myself).

I've heard there is another option, make an extension cord to run from the dryer outlet to the garage. 60 feet. I remember a little bit about electricity, the longer your distance, the larger the cord (12 gauge maybe?). What do you think about that option? Does the TW90 220V have the same sort of plug that the dryer has? Would it plug right into the dryer outlet?

Then there is the option of just saying, "rain on the 220V idea", and just go with the 110V 1.5HP.

Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions.
 
I just ordered an esteem grinder and had the same issue. It is my understanding that 110 or 220 lies in how the motor/vfd is wired, but is the same motor. So if you are stuck with 110 for now, you can always rewire the motor/vfd down the road when you have 220.
I'll let folks that actually know what they are talking about chime in on the extension cord idea.
Congrats on the grinder!
 
"make an extension cord to run from the dryer outlet to the garage. 60 feet."

you and I must have the same house floorplan..... :-)
 
The main difference is that the VFD wil only deliver 1.5HP from the motor on 110V. Run on 220V, it delivers 2HP.

The cord choice affects the input power to the VFD. There is an internal jumper/switch that selects 110 or 220V input. If you only have 110V, get that cord. If you have 220V later on, just change the cord/plug and switch the jumper.

The other difference is in how big a circuit it will need. A minimum of a 20 amp breaker is needed for the 110V setup.
 
Personally if you have the money I would go with the 220v. Knowing the amps of the motor and the distance running it will be easy to know the wire size, and if running to an additional breaker box, I would tap into the main power line or breaker in your panel and run to a small panel in the garage. This is actually exactly how I have service running to my shop. I would run number 6 wires to the panel. You can then have a 220 breaker and outlet for the grinder and run a couple more circuits of 110, and in the event that you pop a breaker you don't have to go to the other panel to reset the breakers.

Find and locate the panel, go in the attic and find the wires going down from the attic to the panel. Find a suitable place to drill a hole to send the wire down to the main panel. Carefully take a screwdriver and knock out one of the holes to fish the wire into the main panel. Run the wire through the attic to the garage. Drill a hole on the inside of the garage right up against the sheet rock of the wall to run the wire down into the garage, but use gray conduit to run the wire through. Mount the sub panel on the wall with the conduit running into the panel. Run all of your circuits in the garage in conduit. When you get ready to move take it all out, get some sheet rock mud and fix the holes.
 
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I just made a Edit: 25' extension cord for my grinder. I used 10guage wire. It was cheaper to buy an Rv extension cord from Princess Auto, similar to the American harbour freight, and cut the ends off.
 
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Willie71 said:
I just made a 50' extension cord for my grinder. I used 10guage wire. It was cheaper to buy an Rv extension cord from Princess Auto, similar to the American harbour freight, and cut the ends off.
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That is actually where the wire Ii'm running through my attic to my main panel came from, except it was number 6/4 and came from a junk camper I picked up for free and turned into a flat bed trailer.
 
Thanks so much for the quick replies. I think the plan is to go with 110V. I do have a 20amp set up right by the work bench. So exciting! Like was mentioned, re-wiring to 220 v later down the road doesn't sound too complicated. You guys are a huge help.
 
Stuart, sounds like a good idea.

Just for those considering the advice about the extension cord idea:

An extension cord changes the gauge/amps ratio. Up to 20 feet, it is OK to just go larger by one gauge ( eg - from 12 gauge to 10 gauge for a 20 amp line), but beyond that you start to get line drop due to resistance. It requires a much larger gauge. For a 50-60 foot extension cord that will provide 220 volts at 20 amps per leg, you need 4 gauge wires. For 30 amp lines, use 2 gauge.
 
I just looked at my cord, and it's 25', not 50' like I posted before. Sorry for misleading you. Stacy is right about line drop.
 
samuraistuart said:
Thanks so much for the quick replies. I think the plan is to go with 110V. I do have a 20amp set up right by the work bench. So exciting! Like was mentioned, re-wiring to 220 v later down the road doesn't sound too complicated. You guys are a huge help.
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the issue with 240 is that there is a different plug for every size service/load. 15 amp, 20 amp, on up to 50 amp(and they are different sizes so you can't put a 20 amp plug in a 30 amp receptacle) then you add grounded or ungrounded, twist lock or straight pins, waterproof or inside only, this link to Hubbell will give you an idea of all the possible options.http://ecatalog.hubbell-wiring.com/...x?Dest=hubbell-wiring.com/press/catalog/b.pdf. you have the same diverse selection when you start looking for 240 3 phase plugs and receptacles. within my shop, I use Harting connectors which are 6 conductor, 20 amp. enjoy
scott
 
samuraistuart said:
Thanks so much for the quick replies. I think the plan is to go with 110V. I do have a 20amp set up right by the work bench. So exciting! Like was mentioned, re-wiring to 220 v later down the road doesn't sound too complicated. You guys are a huge help.
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Something to consider. Most residential codes require a GFI circuit in your garage. If that's what you have, be aware that VFD's don't play well with the GFI outlets. They tend to trip easily. I know that KBAC makes a special VFD for these applications, but you'll need to talk to Travis about this.
 
Ahhhh, I think the voltage drop needs calculating again. A 20 amp circuit at 60 ft using 120 VAC will have only 2.4 volts drop giving 117.6 VAC at full load - and that's using #10 AWG wire.

This link - http://goo.gl/87Sc2l - should give you a good Voltage drop Calculator - perhaps with results for above calculations.... Change to 240VAC and you'll see the how small the voltage drop is with #10, heck, you could even get by with a #12 extension cord and still be less than 2% drop which less than NEC requirements for circuit voltage drop of 3%.

"IF" it wasn't too unhandy I'd use an extension cord from existing dryer plug and get the 240 vac version.

edit: Here's a Voltage Drop calculator from Southwire that's pretty good:

http://www.southwire.com/support/voltage-drop-calculator.htm

Ken H>
 
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Ken and Chuck, I really appreciate the input. Love the voltage help. I did go ahead and order the 110v. 1.5HP IS 1.5hp more than I have at the moment, and I'll change it to 220 later on if I need it. Thank you all.
 
Awesome Stuart! Looking forward to seeing your "machined" work. Dozier


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wdtorque said:
Awesome Stuart! Looking forward to seeing your "machined" work. Dozier


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After a short learning curve, he'll be knocking them out of the park. His current work is top notch, with just files and sandpaper. :thumbup:
 
Dozier, I'm looking forward to it as well! So excited to get going.

Warren, you took the words out of my mouth. There will be a learning curve, and hopefully it will be "short" and "shallow", and not "long" and "steep". Thank you for the kind words about my work. It is something that I absolutely LOVE to do, and LOVE learning about. From learning about files and how to use them correctly, to etching a logo, to making kydex, to heat treating different alloys, tailoring edge/blade geometry, there is always the next thing to learn. For me, that will be the ins/outs of a 2x72 and technique, which belts to use for what, etc. Speaking of belts, that is something I had better start learning. I suppose I have 4-6 weeks to catch up, according to Travis's ETA.

This site alone is a massive help. I've said it before, but it is worth repeating, THANK YOU ALL for your assistance. People ask me, "How did you learn how to do that?" My answer? "Bladeforums".
 
I'm using the ceramic blaze in 36,60, and 120, and like the norax in x200, x100, x65, and x45. After that I go to hand sanding. We don't have that great of a selection in Canada, so out of what we have available, this is what works.
 
Congratulations on your TW-90. I have two and would buy a third if there was room in my shop for it.
As far as belts, my experience is the Norton blaze in 36,60,120 are the best. After that I use Klingspore J-flex in 220, 400, then a 22 Norax, then hand sand. With this belt progression, the hand sanding goes very fast.
 
GREAT!!! Thank you Tom and Warren! I keep hearing "blaze", so "blaze" it is, for the lower grits anyway.
 
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