tw90 and sanding belts

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golfer1

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Nov 24, 2016
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A few days ago many of you gave me advice on what are good 72" grinder/sanders. I started out looking at the KMG, a good grinder but you sold me on the TW90. I called Travis and spoke with him pros/cons and the tw90 just seemed to have so much more of what I was wanting. This is kind of a retirement gift to myself but my budget keeps going the way of Obama's spending.
While waiting on the tw90 I have been looking at sanding belts and to be honest there is quite a confusing array out there. So, I turn back to you for advice again.
I plan to be working more with stainless and D2 steels if that makes any difference.
I've looked at some threads here but they don't seem to be steel specific even thought some of the first advices want to know what kind of steel the person will be working with.
Anything you can share would be most helpful.
Thanks and best wishes.
 
I have two TW90's and am very satisfied.
As far as belts, most everyone has an opinion. This is what I use.
1. Norton blaze belt 36 grit
2. Norton blaze belt, 60 grit
3. Norton blaze belt, 120 grit
4. Klingspor 312 j flex 220 grit
5. Klingspor 312 j flex 400 grit
6. Norax 22

Once the bevels are established with the 36 grit, it doesn't take long with the other. After the Norax 22, I hand sand and that also goes very quickly.

The Norton Blaze belts last an amazingly long time. The Klingspor wear out quickly. The Norax lasts a long time.
 
Like Tom says everyone tends to find what works best for them. The common theme will be to use ceramic abrasive every step possible. I prefer cubitron 984 and then 707e for 120 and 220, then I have both trizacts and norax in higher grits.
 
The only advice I will through in on belts is that I personally never use lower than a 60 grit and usually not lower than 80. IMO I can get plenty of stock removal done with a 60 or 80, and the next step of beginning to get the scratch pattern refined is not as tough as it is with the really lower grit belts.
Oh and PS--Travis is a great guy and I think his grinder is top notch.
 
Golfer, I think that I can make this a little simpler. Many professional knife makes use 3M "Cubitron" belts in 60 grit for initial grinding of bevels. Many others use Norton Blaze orange colored belts which are a tad cheaper but some like the way they grind (I do). There are of course many other belts in the same grit that will do the job but knife makers have their favorites like every other product. After grinding bevels most knife makers use 120 grit belts to refine their grinds and then go to 220 grit or equivalent belts . Many like the "gator belts starting at X 100 then X 65 , then x45, and so on to X6 if you want a mirror polish blade. Others will use a 400 grit cork belt for a satin like finish and some will finish with a 3m "Scotchbrite" belt. You will have to try all of these and find out what works for you. If you can get your wife or girlfriend a second job to help you pay for all these belts and praise her every day. Just my opinion. Larry
 
I'll throw in my perspective as a complete new knife maker. I bought an array of belts when I started. I bought some cubitrons and other 3M belts. Then also had some Hermes cheap AO belts. Also I tried some norton blue belts. By far the best and most used have been 3M cubitron 984 60, 80,120 grits and the trizact belts. I also like the cork belts I have. I don't think I will use any other belts other than those probably. Once I get about a 220 or 400 off the grinder I go to hand sanding that that goes pretty fast. 36 grit scratches can be tuff to remove for me so I'm sticking with 60 grit.


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Another newbie & my $.02 worth. The 36 grit belts are fine for roughing in the bevels. They run well & cut fast. I generally work to a scribe line with the 36 grit, then jump up to the 60 or 80 for finer work & for getting much closer to the finished shape & edge thickness. At that point, 120, 220 & 400 will leave a very nice finish & very little hand work. A 36 grit belt is good for roughing to a line.

One thing I've learned about belts is that you always want to start with a sharp, clean, rough belt for the roughing-in work, then just kiss the sides a bit with the finer belts to go to your finish. Nothing is harder on a belt than trying to remove too much metal with a belt that is too fine. It ruins the belt, makes too much heat & just won't give a good grind, it's false economy to think otherwise (in both time & $). Sharp belts cut, dull ones make heat & won't cut well.

Start with some wood blanks of the pattern you're working on first with the new grinder. Yard sticks are cheap & easy to work, you can find them anywhere. I use 1/8" plywood (baltic birch scraps) as well for a trial pass on a new pattern. The veneer layers give you a "3D" effect like a topo, map so you can see both sides with contour lines & the remaining material fairly easily. They will show you how much effort is needed on a profile & where to be careful. The metal is more expensive, takes more work & time. It can be a problem until you get things down better. If you can't grind a wood pattern fairly well, the metal won't be any easier.

To me it's like shooting. If you can't shoot a 22 well, don't bother wasting time, money & ammunition on a 45. Learn the basics on your wood edges, then go to metal & it's an easy transition. Again, advice from a newbie so take it with a large pinch of salt.
 
I get 90% of my belts from Sean Ryan at Phoenix. I profile with 40 grit ceramic (40's are just a bit cheaper than 36's), grind bevels with 60 ceramic then 120 ceramic. Then to the gators 300, 160, 100. The gators aren't cheap, but last for ever. Don't over look using AO belts for grinding bevels, they don't last as long but for $1-2 each it's easy to throw them out and grab a fresh cutting one. New makers often make the mistake of trying to get too much life out of a high dollar ceramic belt.
 
There is a lot of good advice here on belts and the process. Being only two years into this, I can remember starting with 36 grit belts, cheaper AO belts, and then finally getting some Cubitron, which I love.
The one thing a new knife maker has to do is put in time on the grinder. Until you spend enough time grinding with each belt you really won't be able to understand the nuance of each type and grit of belt.
When your feel for the grind is solid, then you will be able to appreciate the better belts and will be able to pick the type and grit that work for your style of grinding.

If I were starting from scratch now, knowing what I know, I would not worry about making that first fantastic knife so much. It's very hard to do, but I would focus on making a knife shaped object for the sake of it, but would spend considerable time learning about grinding technique. There is so much more to it than just putting metal to belt and grinding off steel.

Learn how to hold an angle, keeping the blade parallel. Make a series of target grind lines up the blade on each side and try to hit them repeatedly. Start with a 6 inch or so blade and try to make each new grind up the blade even the full
length of the blade with no dips, wavers or gouges. At each line go through a series from course to fine belts, because each has it's place and the finer belts reveal how good or bad your technique is with the course belts.
You can remove some pretty good metal up to about 120, but by the time you hit 220 you are removing scratches, and doing some slight thinning adjustments.
By the time you do this on maybe ten blades you will begin to understand the techniques required to do it well. You will have learned how nicely and crisply a new belt will carve out a straight line, and how an old tired belt will wander and produce nothing but poor lines and frustration. It is counter intuitive, but if you must use a worn belt, do it early in the grind. Always finish with a crisp new belt.

When you hit this point in your knife making journey you will know which belts you love and what grits work for each stage.
 
You guys rock. The few knives I have worked with have been on my 12" woodworking disk with 6" belt. Although it kinda works, I really wanted to do it right. Youi folks are such a wealth of information and willing to share, I certainly appreciate it.
I understand about needing time at the grinder as the best method and know that certainly makes sense. I have some mild steel 1/8 bar that I practiced with before and plan to use that some more. I'm sure my first knife will be perfect though [ha ha] so won't need much practice.
You have saved me from starting with the more mid line belts and shared what works for you. That is a great help and saves me a lot of time on the learning curve of belts.
I will share with you what I plan to try as soon as I digest you information and you can let me know what you think.
Thanks and blessings to all.
 
I also like to keep several cheap AO belts on hand in 80 and 120 for handle work. Don't waste your fancy belts on wood.
 
As Brock alluded to, I just wanted to add that I (and many other makers) recommend always using a semi used/worn belt to grind the initial 90 degrees corners off the blade when starting your bevels. If you use a fresh belt to knock the corners off it can tend to strip away a good amount of the fresh grit on a new belt and thus shorten it's life a bit. So cut in your 45*s with a somewhat used belt, then switch to a new belt to grind your bevels. :thumbup:

One tip regarding using gator (structured abrasive) belts. If you plan on using them to clean up the blades profiles by grinding vertically (parallel) to the belt, or with your grinder in it's horizontal position, make sure to save those belts specifically for that purpose and don't use them for your bevels. I made this mistake when I first tried gators and ended up hating them for the inconsistent finish they gave me, but that was only because I was using the same belt for both processes. You will create some grooves in the belt by cleaning up the profile on it which will just give all kinds of headaches trying to get a clean finish on your bevel.. at least that was my experience. This also applies to using Norax belts. Anyway, that my $0.02 ;)


~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been a few years since my last upload)
 
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before buying belts I would determine how much pressure and what speeds you will be using as different belts fracture at different rates...but the blaze recommendations are good ones for sure!
 
Thanks so much for your help on this issue. I hope I can have something to pass on in the future like you guys do. So helpful. Based on you advice I ordered an array of ceramic mostly belts. The one thing I can say is it doesn't take long to go thru a few hundred dollars when buying premium belts. I stayed primarly with Blaze and Cubitron and Trizact as I'm sure if they work for you, they will work for me.
Coldsteelburns; thanks for the tips these really help reduce the learning curve.
I can't imagine going thru a bunch of different belts to see which I like the best without the baseline you guys gave me on the Norton and 3M belts.
Thanks again for all your help.
 
All Good Advice.....Learn the feel of a worn belt and discard it because they are more of a headache than they are worth! Belts are not cheap but a new fresh belt will cut so much better and cooler than the one you just try to squeeze the extra penny out of....:thumbup:
 
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