Ulster Tang Stamps

[thawk]

Does anyone have a list of the various Ulster Tang Stamps with approximate dates? I just bought an Ulster, with a three line stamp saying Ulster / Dwight Divine / & Sons. I anticipate this is the stamp variety. This is not the actual knife.

The knife has not arrived yet, but it is stamped 115 3/4 on the pile side. The knife is a Daddy Barlow with sawcut bone handles, 4 pins, no shield. The pic sucks, which probably allowed me to win it.

Here is the actual knife. Just wondering the age. Will post more pics when I get it. Ball cap was not included.

 

[ea42]

I believe the stamps that include "Sons" was used up to 1940 or so. A precursor to this stamp had only "Son" in it, but I'm not sure when they switched, although something tells me around 1919-early 20's. I've got the info somewhere, now I just have to find it! Not all the knives had the Devine stamping on them, some were just simply stamped Ulster Knife, and some had the Ulster stamp on the mark side and the Devine stamp on the pile side.

Eric

 

[orvet]

Dwight Divine was killed in an automobile accident (IIRC) in 1933. I do not if the sons used the Dwight Divine & Sons after his death or not.
Does anyone else know?

Here is a very strange Ulster tang stamp.
LT said it was the real thing & not a counterfeit.
Since I paid less than $5 for it, there would have been no point in counterfeiting it to get rich off me.

Dale

 

[lrv]

The Devine's sold to the Baer and Schrade Brothers in 1941.
Up till that time the Devine and Sons stamp was being used.
I know the "Sons" stamp was added after 1900 and before 1919 (I have an article somewhere which I believe said about 1912..). I'll keep looking.
I have not seen a Devine and Son tang stamp.
Anyone have one to show?
TTYL
Larry

 

[thawk]

Thanks for the information guys. It's making me more anxious to get that knife. I did not think it looked to be that old, but we'll wait and see.

 

[waynorth]

Dwight Divine was killed in an automobile accident (IIRC) in 1933. I do not if the sons used the Dwight Divine & Sons after his death or not.
Does anyone else know?

Here is a very strange Ulster tang stamp.
LT said it was the real thing & not a counterfeit.
Since I paid less than $5 for it, there would have been no point in counterfeiting it to get rich off me.

Dale

Wow! You don't see a mis-spelled tang stamp very often!!

 

[rprocter]

my understanding of the 1941 sales agreement between the Devine family and Albert Baer , was that Mr. Baer could use the name Ulster, or Ulster Knife, or Ulster USA, or Ulster Knife USA, but not Ulster Knife Co.
is this correct ?
also i have bought knives which a seller listed as "Dwight Devine Ulster" with no tangs pics. and knife turned out to be "Ulster Knife"; i.e. post DD, post 1941. balanced by purchases listed as "Schrade" which really are Schrade Cut. Co.
roland

 

[thawk]

This will be a fun knife to get. After the purchase, the seller has told me it is 3 lines like the one on the knife earlier in the thread. He also says the pattern number of 115 3/4 is on the pile side of the tang. I was hoping it might arrive today, but no dice.

 

[Codger_64]

my understanding of the 1941 sales agreement between the Devine family and Albert Baer , was that Mr. Baer could use the name Ulster, or Ulster Knife, or Ulster USA, or Ulster Knife USA, but not Ulster Knife Co.
is this correct ?
also i have bought knives which a seller listed as "Dwight Devine Ulster" with no tangs pics. and knife turned out to be "Ulster Knife"; i.e. post DD, post 1941. balanced by purchases listed as "Schrade" which really are Schrade Cut. Co.
roland

The agreement with C.D. Divine et. al. was that Baer would not use the Divine family name. This according to Albert Baer. But... Ulster was an old Divine trademark and the name was used by them in a variety of combinations both with and without the Divine family name before Baer bought the company.

Michael

 

[rprocter]

Michael, do you know if any of the Ulsters post 1941 are marked "Ulster Knife Co. ? and what different tang markings did A.B. use on the post '41 knives ?
roland

 

[Codger_64]

The "Ulster Knife Co." marks were used by Baer, among other marks for Ulster. Documents show that the company was not officially incorporated until 1946 however. Somewhere I have documents (provided to me from the Camillus archives) on the trademark of the Ulster name both under the Divine family and under Baer. When he bought the company, both brothers continued on the board (C.D. died in 1946), along with Henry and Albert's wife, Helene.

It is really difficult to date the knives by marks alone. I don't believe the Divines used "U.S.A." as a part of their stamps. And of course, Albert did not use the Divine family name.

I'll take a bit of time to research the Ulster marks if you like. I'll see what I can come up with that is definitive with documentation. Meanwhile, see what John and Charlotte Goins have to say. They were sometimes wrong, but most often right.

Michael

 

[rprocter]

Michael, only when you have the time and inclination. great to see that your generosity and desire to help others has survived recent challenges.
my love of Schrade has led me to Ulster. with all respect to A.B., i find the later Ulsters to be often somewhat less well made than concurrent Schrade-Walden knives. the older Ulsters are in the top class of USA made production knives. hold a big old Ulster Jack in your hand once, and you know the difference. i have been unable to find much info on which of the various tang stampings was used when. yes "read the knife" and "rules of thumb can poke you in the eye", but they can help when deciding on a knife which you can only see on your computer screen. because you are thorough and persistant with your researching, i think what you might discover will be the most definitive to date, and will be much appreciated by many of us. having said this, i now expect to be paying more for old Ulsters on ebay ! however to me the true spirit of collecting is sharing as well as hording. and you are a shining example of sharing.
roland

 

[thawk]

Well Roland you are correct about the older Ulsters. This Daddy Barlow pattern 115 3/4 is likely the best made knife I own. Built like a tank, solid half stop, extra strong spring, liners and spring is tight, and pretty saw cut bone. Not sure of the age, the blade appears fairly full. Someone cleaned it up at some point in its life. It has steel pins and bolsters. I'd appreciate knowing the age.

Welcome back Codger.

 

[rprocter]

Hal, i'm right and i'm wrong. i didn't bid on that Daddy Barlow because i thought it was post '41 from what i could make out from seller's pic. good score, but you are THE expert at scoring deals. maybe you can quit your day job now !!!
your bud, kootenay rolando

 

[ea42]

Hal, I'm still looking for my source for the tang information, I know it's here somewhere because I remember reading it not long ago. What I have found is that the Divine and Son name was used from 1900 to 1923, and Divine and Sons was used rom 1923 to 1941. Now I'm not sure if the tang stamps reflected the name change (they seemed pretty frugal with the tang stamp expenditures LOL), but here's a shot of an Ulster box care of LT that shows the "Son" version:

[/IMG]

That's a sweet knife Hal, first Divine barlow I've seen:thumbup::thumbup:

Eric

 

[ea42]

Found it!! Here's the link, second column about halfway down. I'd suggest reading the entire article as it's extremely informative:

http://www.wawarsing.net/22/COPDF/409-17-Forward2.pdf

BTW, there's a photo of a cutler in the article. Do you see the grinding wheel he's "riding"? I recently read an article that explained how, on rare occassions, defective wheels would disintegrate, sending huge chunks of stone flying around like shrapnel, often maiming or killing the rider. The article was written to describe a new "cage" the wheel could be housed in to prevent the broken stone from doing any damage. One of the prototype cages was tested at none other than the Schrade plant! I'll have to look it up and post it on a new thread (when I find it )

Eric