Ultimate axe head steel

jdm61

jdm61

itinerant metal pounder
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Aug 12, 2005
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if you guys were looking to make the "ultimate" forged axe head, what steel would you use? When I say "ultimate" i mean one that is tough as nails yet can still take and hold a "carving" edge. For me, that takes steels like S7 or H13 out of the mix. I may be wrong. I know that modern decent quality axes are made from 4140, medium carbon 10xx steels like the Swedish axes and the "starter kit" Council tool axes, 5160 like the Velvicut models and, of course, on the handmade and vintage side, mild steel bodies with forge welded bits of high carbon steel including some "exotic" stuff like L6. The assumptions here are that such an ultimate axe would be a monosteel piece and best possible methods would be available for heat treatment of whatever steel was chosen. th head would also be though hardened and drawn back where required. My short list would include L6, 10xx and 5160 for starters. 52100 MIGHT be another candidate using the low austinizing temp regimen. Availability in appropriate sizes might be an issue that could possibly exclude some steels like 80CrV2/L2 or W2 for most other people. I have some big square W2. But in general terms, those steels are of limited in their usefulness due to the need to forge weld stock to get a usable size. So what are your thoughts?
 
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Your right. According to all the movies I've seen, the ultimate would be melting into a crucible some magic star metal from an asteroid. Forge in the fires of an active volcano, engrave with mysterious runes and quench in the blood of your enemies on the night of a full moon. Oh, and you must be a dwarf or it just won't be "ultimate".

I checked Speedy Metals online but they are out of stock. :-)
 
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You get the general idea. ;) Point that 1070, 1055, 1045, 4140, etc are considered to be "basic steels" whereas 5160 is presented as a "premium" upgrade by at least one axemanufacture. so is it a premium upgrade and what would constitute reasonable "super premium" upgrades? this is arguably as much of a "marketing" question as a technical one.
 
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Color me shocked, Don!!!!!! :D Of course, you have a large supply of appropriately sized stock to work with out there in Hanson World, which is a more wonderful place than the real steel world. ;)
Don Hanson III said:
I'd just use W2. :cool:
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I done a few out of Cru Forge V, I like em, next will be a few folds of Cru Forge V and L6, I'm thinking it should be a good combo.
 
I would guess it's mostly marketing. I would prefer a quality maker and not care if it's 1070 or 5160 as long as it's a tough steel. I would prefer L6 of all of them. I wouldn't want higher carbon than these because you wouldn't need to take an axe up to such a high RC and I prefer tough over edge. You can sharpen in the field easy enough but dealing with chips is a pain.
 
How about a San Mai ??
get the medium carbon 1060 on the main body with a 5160 insert for good/flexible edge. or L6 for the edge if you prefer.
just forge it into a U shape put your edge material in and forge weld it in place,drift the eye and be done.
 
Add lower cost to that equation with 5160. Hoss, how would you HT a 5160 axe head?
DevinT said:
5160 probably has the most potential balance between wear resistance and toughness.

Hoss
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Steve, have you ever tried to get CruForge to forge weld? My one attempt was a major failure, but I was trying to make CFV/416 san mai, so that was a major factor.
R.Rock said:
I done a few out of Cru Forge V, I like em, next will be a few folds of Cru Forge V and L6, I'm thinking it should be a good combo.
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I would think that the 1060 would kind of defeat the purpose of using that old school method as it would get "too hard" if you quenched the entire head and would be a "waste of carbon" if you didn't.
Pinoy Knife said:
How about a San Mai ??
get the medium carbon 1060 on the main body with a 5160 insert for good/flexible edge. or L6 for the edge if you prefer.
just forge it into a U shape put your edge material in and forge weld it in place,drift the eye and be done.
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It is sounding like the two I mentioned initially, 5160 and L6, are shaking out as the top vote getters.
 
I think I would like a 5160 body and 80CRV2 bit. Though in a perfect world for me the whole thing would be 80crv2, as I've found in my experience that it outstrips 5160 in toughness and edge holding even when left really hard. The video I have of testing to destruction a knife in 80CRV2 that knife was tempered once at 350 degrees, and I'm sure my heat treat could be more finely tuned for that steel than the one used on that knife.
 
I like S7. It can take an absurd amount of abuse and still hold a very good edge. It might not be as keen as some of the higher carbon steels mentioned, but keep in mind than an axe is first and foremost a chopping tool. Cracked or chipped edges are simply not OK.
 
I have yet to make an axehead or 'hawk out of 80CrV2 but it makes phenomenal JEST bolos and choppers if HT'd right.
Guess I need to forge a little hatchet head and see what happens.
 
And I am searching for BOTH attributes. I think that us kine people have discovered in recent years that with proper HT, you don't need to leave "hard use" tools as soft and, in some cases. like with CruForge V, leaving them too soft can possibly have detrimental effects. To me, S7 is still a compromise in the not so good sense of the word. Sure, some folks have made hard use knives, etc out of it, but it is not what i would call a "go to" steel. My experience with some steels in hard use application, like W2 left at 60+ at the edge, is that they tend not to crack or chip but "roll" or flatten even at those high hardness levels. If the did chip out or crack, my first reaction would be that I got something wrong with the HT. Of course, when you take a steel that comes out of the quench at 67 and back it down to 60-61, I figure you have tempted mosts of the choppiness out of it if you did it correctly. The fact that the thick part of the spine does not get that hard also helps.
Wulf said:
I like S7. It can take an absurd amount of abuse and still hold a very good edge. It might not be as keen as some of the higher carbon steels mentioned, but keep in mind than an axe is first and foremost a chopping tool. Cracked or chipped edges are simply not OK.
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