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Ultimate Production Chef Knife NEW IMAGES

Discussion in 'Kitchen Cutlery & Tools' started by Lotmom, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. Lotmom

    Lotmom Gold Member Gold Member

    165
    Apr 21, 2016
    Better enough to purchase one? :D

    Jokes aside, do you, as a chef, think something like this could make it in the market?
     
  2. marchone

    marchone Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 13, 2013
    At 10” for pros, yes. At 8” for home cooks, possibly. I really can’t speak to that market. People have strange ideas about scale in relation to their body size. I’ve heard many young cooks say a 10” blade is too big for them. Until they learn the size covers their board better.

    If I like it I’ll buy one.
     
    FOG2 likes this.
  3. Lotmom

    Lotmom Gold Member Gold Member

    165
    Apr 21, 2016
    Good to know. I will probably end up having a 10" model produced too.
     
  4. jdm61

    jdm61 itinerant metal pounder Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 12, 2005
    How would the heel bolster allow the "last couple of inches" of the edge to be used as a light cleaver? the edge is or should still be thin. They way that you would "strengthen" the edge around the heel is to leave it slightly thicker.
     
  5. marchone

    marchone Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 13, 2013
    I’ve though of that before. You may be right. It can’t be Kramer thin. It has to have enough thickness behind the edge to be strong. Repeating what I said before, I’ve never chipped one. And they’ve gone through a lot more than chicken bones. I’d destroy a Kramer in no time flat.
     
  6. Lotmom

    Lotmom Gold Member Gold Member

    165
    Apr 21, 2016
    Answering from a knife-making point of view And not a daily user point of view:

    It adds stability in the same way an I-beam is more structurally sound than a flat metal bar.

    The way I like to think about it is in terms of # of connection points, where each one adds strength.

    In a blade with no heel bolster, there is only one connection point between the edge and the rest of the blade. With a heel bolster you have 2.
     
  7. jdm61

    jdm61 itinerant metal pounder Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 12, 2005
    Bad comparison as the I-beam as a whole may be stronger but the web is no stronger or weaker than a flat bar of the same dimensions. As for the whole daily user vs. knifemaker thing, how many F22 pilots actually built their own airplane? ;)
     
  8. marchone

    marchone Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 13, 2013
    I’m outside on my phone right now so haven’t really focused on this. I had a similar thought in the past thinking the bolster may possibly act as a diagonal truss. In conjunction with a fat edge? I really do not know. An structural engineer might shed some light on it.
     
  9. Lotmom

    Lotmom Gold Member Gold Member

    165
    Apr 21, 2016
    I wasn't thinking about this correctly! What marchone said seems better.

    A diagonal truss will have more strength than a flat bar. That's essentially what the blade edge is, a diagonal truss between the spine and the heel!

    Think right-angle triangle with the hypotenuse being the edge with the other two sides being the spine and the heel respectively!

    And if I had the skill, time, and resources to build f22's.... Let's just say I wouldn't be getting this manufactured for me. :p
     
  10. jdm61

    jdm61 itinerant metal pounder Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 12, 2005
    IMO, the reason that firms still build these bolstered knives is that the public expects that. Neither Zwilling nor Wusthof drop forge their knives anymore and that info comes fro their own PR videos showing their manufacturing process. The bolsters are forge welded to strip steel, yet they still talk about their "forged"" knives. IIRC at least one of the German firm and a number of the French ones still drop forge, but I suspect that is done because it is the "old way."
     
  11. Lotmom

    Lotmom Gold Member Gold Member

    165
    Apr 21, 2016
    Makes sense. It seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the entire functional point of bolsters is for balance and ergonomics.

    If that's the case, and knives can be produced for cheaper with the same quality, why not use stamped steel and welded bolsters?

    Just my 2 cents

    P.s. everything I know about metallurgy tells me that the idea of stamping and forging a blade making it tougher makes no sense.

    Normalizing's express purpose is to remove any stresses put into the blade during forging/grinding.
     
  12. jdm61

    jdm61 itinerant metal pounder Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 12, 2005
    ALL steel is forged at some point. Most of us makers who forge and who don't believe the fairy tales do so because it is fun or you have to forge if you want to make damascus. It is certainly easier and more efficient to forge or forge weld an integral/bolstered knife than to start with a bar that is 3/4-1 inch thick and machine away most of it, but that does not stop some very talented makers from doing that very thing. And they charge accordingly. ;)
     
  13. Lotmom

    Lotmom Gold Member Gold Member

    165
    Apr 21, 2016
    O
    Of course. If you like it, chances are others do as well :D
     
  14. marchone

    marchone Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 13, 2013
    Do I understand correctly your belief is that the Wustof bolster does nothing to add strength to the blade and is merely a marketing gimmick?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
  15. jdm61

    jdm61 itinerant metal pounder Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 12, 2005
    No, I am saying that it is a design that was developed over a century ago that was suited to the machinery that they had and it looks kinda cool.
     
  16. marchone

    marchone Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 13, 2013
    That's a reasonable take. However, there is a reason I've never chipped one. And Lord knows I've tried. Inadvertently, of course. Light cleaver action. Lamb ribs, 20lb pork ribs. Whole turkey and guinea fowl carcasses, domesticated and wild. You can pretty much name it, less beef bones.
     
  17. robgmn

    robgmn

    Oct 30, 2015
    A tangent that maybe should be put in another thread, but am I reading that forging doesn't increase the strength of steel?
     
  18. Lotmom

    Lotmom Gold Member Gold Member

    165
    Apr 21, 2016
    Yep! After PROPER normalizing, there will be no difference between forged and non-forged steel.
     
  19. FOG2

    FOG2 Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 1, 2007
    I cook for a living and a 10 inch blade is almost the only knife I use.
    I also prefer a wide blade 2 inchs or more at the heel.
     
  20. Lotmom

    Lotmom Gold Member Gold Member

    165
    Apr 21, 2016
    I certainly agree with you on the height of blades. It's so useful to use the blade as a transfer surface and such.

    As for the 10 inch blade, if there's enough interest, I'll get a 10" model made.

    I'm currently getting in touch with Massdrop, hoping I can get this beauty on there.
     
    FOG2 likes this.

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