Understanding lead rivets?

T

Tin.Man

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Sep 5, 2010
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Feel like I’ve been searching for this for years now. Figured it’s high time I ask here, on the older ek Knives from world war 2, he used rock maple handles and lead rivets. Said in the history he liked the balanced the lead added to the handle.

How would one go about doing this? I’ve welded and brazed in the past and wouldn’t lead being hot enough to pour burn the wood handles? Also how did these hold the handles on tight?

Appreciate the help
 
Well, first off, there is no need to pour molten lead to make a rivet. They could be hammered from round lead rod.
Second, it was probably more due to the restrictions on using copper during the war.
Last, the small amount of lead in a few rivets was not heavier enough to appreciably change the balance.

I would say most of the history statement you quoted was hype to explain something that sounds less desirable and try to spin it as more desirable.
 
Yup. Lets taper that tang for balance. And then use lead rivets for balance. Or add a metal bolster near the balance point for balance, or add a weighted end cap, you know, for balance. People say some pretty hysterical stuff.
 
It's a good idea to wash your hands after handling lead. I can't imagine wanting that as a handle rivet.


Edit: I'm sorry you weren't asking if this was a good idea, my bad. I would buy some lead wire or rod and snip it off into rounds that can be pretty readily flared out into a rivet. Being so ductile I don't think it would need to be a two-piece rivet.

An old knife I took apart a long time ago that had Cutlery rivets that could have been mistaken for lead were actually probably "nickel silver". They drilled a lot like brass.
 
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Thats going to be quite soft as a rivet. I expect the originals were one of the hard lead alloys.
Btw, molten lead can char wood, but depends how much lead applied. Small amount against wood will cool rapidly enough to not damage.

Btw, Rock Maple is used for spatulas & other tools for forming lead. Such as used on autobody, phonecable & roofing.
I have an assortment of them what are well used but scarcely charred on their faces. Most charring on their backside where exposed to a gastorch.
 
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Lieblad said:
Thats going to be quite soft as a rivet. I expect the originals were one of the hard lead alloys.
Click to expand...

I expect you're right. I fell into the fallacy of saying why something seems like a bad idea when the question was understanding lead rivets. I obviously don't understand them and should have scratched my head, sipped my beer and moved on.

There are nickel silver cutlery rivets that might give the OP the look he's going for that have worked well for me. Other than that, sorry I misspoke.
 
John Ek was not exactly a traditional knifemaker.
He used pieces of rusted steel, ground a very crude edge on them, and poured lead rivets. I have no idea why anyone would want to recreate any of his methods.
 
Nathan your input is always welcome haha. No I don’t want to use lead, but the concept is intriguing to use a lead free silver solder.

Have it clamped up, holes drilled and counter sunk, then just pour and maybe a light sanding on either side and voila.

I hate epoxy cleanup(can do it no problem but not a fan) and am not setup to do flared tubing style rivets.

May just end up going the copper peened rivets for simplicity sake.

I put no stock in the balance thing btw and agree a lot of knifemakers turn stuff around.

What I love about ek is the history and that world war 2 oss fairbairn sykes daggers and lapel daggers and all the goodies of that era.

Scroll down, personally I love some of these daggers

https://www.fairbairnsykesfightingknives.com/ek-knives.html
 
Lead free silver solder would be a poor substitute for lead .... unless it was just for a fun project that would not be finished. It has little structural strength. Its ability to hold is in thin film bonding.

Lead work hardens somewhat, and some lead alloys, especially the ones used in marine shipfitting of days past, are much harder. IIRC, the grain disruptions re-form in lead at room temp, so working it does not make it brittle. Lead rivets would have to be larger diameter, and have either stepped seats or largely chamfered holes.

A trivia footnote:
The fact that lead does not become brittle due to age or working it allowed it to be shaped into pipes thousands of years ago. Once a layer of oxide formed, it was like a lined pipe and lasted almost forever. Even today, they dig up lead water mains in some of the older cities that are still carrying water.
Thanks to the issues in Flint Michigan the general public now knows that lead water pipes that were laid to the houses 100 years ago are still under many older US cities.
In Norfolk, VA we dug up a 24" wooden water main during an expansion at the water plant. It was made from cypress and had been in the ground well over 150 years.
Those of us old enough remember phrases like "it felt like I was hit with a lead pipe", and playing Clue where "Col. Mustard did it in the Study with a lead pipe." To the people who said those things in the 1920's thru 1950's, they made perfect sense.
 
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