Unmarked WWII style KA-BAR? ONTARIO? IMPERIAL??

S

shotbuster

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Mar 2, 2013
Messages
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http://s284.beta.photobucket.com/user/90shortwide/library/

I found this knife in a second hand store in a small town in Oregon. It has no identifying marks that I can find and no signs of any marks being ground off.
I was told that it was acquired from a man who's father carried it during WWII. I was hoping that someone can help me to shed some light on my little mystery.
Thank you in advance for your help.

YamhillKabar009.jpg


OLDKABAR001.jpg


YamhillKabar002.jpg
 
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Well you can rule out Imperial right off the top. They never made any. Ontario production of these type of knives is about 1980 or at least post Vietnam Era. The knife and sheath do very much look like WW2 period pieces. There are some late production Guard marked Navy MK2's that had the KA-BAR name stamped out on them. Sorry I'm not much help. This one is more interesting than I thought it would be when I first saw the thread. Could you try taking a clear picture of the guard on the blade side of the knife? Thanks.
 
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Hey Sac Troop! If you go to my original link the pix that I added have shown up there. Tell me what you think. Your posts suggest that you really know your stuff about these knives.
 
Shotbuster,

Interesting knife. If Sac Troop has problems IDing it then it has to be a unique knife. I'm thinking it may be a Camillus knife. Thin pommel, in-line leather handle, squareish Bloodgroove. While Camillus made bend guard versions they were typically straight guards. The vise marks on the guard indicate that the guard may have been bent back. The sheath does look peroid correct. The lack of marking on the ricasso or guard is a little troubling. I don't think it is a Union/KA-BAR but I've been known to be wrong.
Frank Trazska or another Military Knife expert may offer some more insite.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
 
Shotbuster, Thanks for the additional pictures. I can now see that the marks on the one side of the guard were not there to obliterate any stamping.
Also the added pictures help me feel that the knife looks to be in “very good +” condition, with most of the original finish on the blade.
IMHO I still feel that this knife and the sheath are WW2 time period. After that I think this knife is “beyond my pay grade”.:distrust: I agree with Toooj I think I’d like to get Frank’s input on your knife. Regarding which of the four companies that made this knife I’m not sure. I am posting some pictures of a couple of Camillus made knives I have for comparison.

Here’s a late war guard marked Camillus/ USN MK 2,

DCP_1412.jpg
DCP_1414.jpg


You’ll notice that the Fuller on this example is more narrow than your example. But one of the things about the 1219C2 knives, (I’ve gotten into calling these that as it seems the most universal description), are the number of rather small variations in the knives even from the same manufacture. Here’s the same knife next to an earlier Camillus USN MK2 that is blade marked and the fuller is very different.
DCP_1419.jpg


Shotbuster I like your knife.
 
sac troop said:
Shotbuster, Thanks for the additional pictures. I can now see that the marks on the one side of the guard were not there to obliterate any stamping.
Also the added pictures help me feel that the knife looks to be in “very good +” condition, with most of the original finish on the blade.
IMHO I still feel that this knife and the sheath are WW2 time period. After that I think this knife is “beyond my pay grade”.:distrust: I agree with Toooj I think I’d like to get Frank’s input on your knife. Regarding which of the four companies that made this knife I’m not sure. I am posting some pictures of a couple of Camillus made knives I have for comparison.

Here’s a late war guard marked Camillus/ USN MK 2,

DCP_1412.jpg
DCP_1414.jpg


You’ll notice that the Fuller on this example is more narrow than your example. But one of the things about the 1219C2 knives, (I’ve gotten into calling these that as it seems the most universal description), are the number of rather small variations in the knives even from the same manufacture. Here’s the same knife next to an earlier Camillus USN MK2 that is blade marked and the fuller is very different.
DCP_1419.jpg


Shotbuster I like your knife.
Click to expand...

Thank you for all of your input! It is nice to know that someone has some viable knowledge about these things and are willing to share it. The photos of the knives in your collection very interesting to say the least. The blood groove is VERY similar to mine. I have always been intrigued by this design, and the history behind them make them that much more desirable to me. Another member, Toooj, mentioned a man named Frank Trazska who may have some information as well. Do you know how I can contact him? Or maybe share my photos with him? It would be interesting to hear his opinion as well. Again, thanks a million for sharing what you know with me! Would you have any idea as to what the value might be? Not that I want to sell it of course! :)
 
Toooj said:
Shotbuster,

Interesting knife. If Sac Troop has problems IDing it then it has to be a unique knife. I'm thinking it may be a Camillus knife. Thin pommel, in-line leather handle, squareish Bloodgroove. While Camillus made bend guard versions they were typically straight guards. The vise marks on the guard indicate that the guard may have been bent back. The sheath does look peroid correct. The lack of marking on the ricasso or guard is a little troubling. I don't think it is a Union/KA-BAR but I've been known to be wrong.
Frank Trazska or another Military Knife expert may offer some more insite.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
Click to expand...

Thank you Paul! To have someone who is as involved in the KA-BAR company as you are comment on my knife was really a pleasant surprise and very informative. How can I contact Mr. Trazska?
 
Toooj said:
Shotbuster,

Interesting knife. If Sac Troop has problems IDing it then it has to be a unique knife. I'm thinking it may be a Camillus knife. Thin pommel, in-line leather handle, squareish Bloodgroove. While Camillus made bend guard versions they were typically straight guards. The vise marks on the guard indicate that the guard may have been bent back. The sheath does look peroid correct. The lack of marking on the ricasso or guard is a little troubling. I don't think it is a Union/KA-BAR but I've been known to be wrong.
Frank Trazska or another Military Knife expert may offer some more insite.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
Click to expand...

Thank you Paul! To have someone who is as involved in the KA-BAR company as you are comment on my knife was really a pleasant surprise and very informative. How can I contact Mr. Trazska?
 
shotbuster said:
Thank you for all of your input! It is nice to know that someone has some viable knowledge about these things and are willing to share it. The photos of the knives in your collection very interesting to say the least. The blood groove is VERY similar to mine. I have always been intrigued by this design, and the history behind them make them that much more desirable to me. Another member, Toooj, mentioned a man named Frank Trazska who may have some information as well. Do you know how I can contact him? Or maybe share my photos with him? It would be interesting to hear his opinion as well. Again, thanks a million for sharing what you know with me! Would you have any idea as to what the value might be? Not that I want to sell it of course! :)
Click to expand...

Frank can be contacted through his site: http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/
 
Go to your album at photobucket.
Click on a picture that you want to post here.
Then click on the code img code for the picture - img xxxxxxx img. That will "copy" the code.
Now come to this thread, click "Reply to Thread," and "paste" the img code in your post.

Hey, if I can figure it out . . .

All else failing, grab a teenager.
 
Shotbuster, In case you haven’t run across this already, heres a link to one of Frank Trzaska’s “Knife Knotes Archived Index” from his site.
Part Five is an article on these knives that you’ll want to read. Frank’s USmilitaryknives.com is a great place for collectors of U.S. military blades.

http://usmilitaryknives.com/okca_1996.htm

Frank has been very approachable to me in the past. I encourage you to contact him. Please feel free to update us on what you find. If you still need help let me know and I'll be happy to see what I can do.
 
sac troop, Thank you very much. I have to tell you how much I appreciate all of your help here. Everyone has been great! I will certainly keep you posted! As a green pea here, should I start a new post when I learn more or just keep this one going? Thanks again!!
 
Hello James,
Your knife started out life as a US military knife most likely made by Kabar. The grip, guard and pommel have been changed somewhere along the line with what looks like parts from a knife that was made post war in Japan. The guard and pommel for sure, the leather grip might or may not be. It has been changed from original and does not have any real collector value, just as a using knife.

All the best
Frank Trzaska


Well, now we know. Amazing how Frank can tell all of that by looking at the photo's but hey...the man apparently knows his stuff!
 
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