Unveiling the "Bull Thistle" American Scythe Stone

[FortyTwoBlades]

Medium-hard premium synthetic ruby ceramic, ANSI 120 grit. The "Bull Thistle" series is intended for setting an aggressive, toothy scratch pattern on slicing knives and tools, as well as routine bevel maintenance (thinning bevels rounded over by repeated honing) or removing minor to moderate dings or rolls. The first stone in this series is an American pattern scythe stone: a 10" long bar-shaped stone with rounded edges that until recently were the most commonly-used stone of farmers and road crews. They're perfect for use like an abrasive file or steel and hug the curves of forward-curving and recurved blades just as easily as common upswept blades. Traditional applications include scythes, sickles, grass hooks, brush axes, corn hooks, machetes, and digging tools like shovels, hoes, and mattocks. Like all our other stones, they're made right in the USA.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Some beauty shots of it in use in a classic application.

 

[Danketch]

Just ordered one of these. You mainly just use water for lubrication?

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Yes, though it's compatible with oil as well.

I sent one to my buddy Botan Anderson at One Scythe Revolution (a European-style scythe retailer in Wisconsin) and he snapped this lovely photo of it along with the American pattern scythe I restored for him a few years ago.

 

[Bladite]

Yes, though it's compatible with oil as well.

I sent one to my buddy Botan Anderson at One Scythe Revolution (a European-style scythe retailer in Wisconsin) and he snapped this lovely photo of it along with the American pattern scythe I restored for him a few years ago.

wow. look at that blade!

ruby splippers!

i'll get you my pretty

no, seriously, i need this...

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

[video=youtube;qObzgUfCl28]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qObzgUfCl28[/video]

It's a great stone and I've been enjoying it a lot. Will also end up putting out a canoe-shaped scythe stone and a few others.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

I use the BYXCO Arctic Fox American scythe stone for my machete. It is a one stone solution, fast enough to fix damage while producing a fine edge and a smooth low friction finish. Using it to refine and thin factory bevels is pushing it however, taking a long time and putting significant wear on the stone. I would like something faster than this, yet less brutal and more controllable than a large hand file.

Is the Bull Thistle a faster stone, better suited to this more extensive work? From the grit rating it should be, but the Arctic Fox description reads "Finer than any of the other scythe stones we offer, but no less rapid in their honing action." and "Cut Speed: Fast" while the Bull Thistle description reads "Cut Speed: Medium." Are the given cut speeds relative to grit, or do I need a Manticore if I want to move more metal than the Arctic Fox?

Also: how well does the Bull Thistle work dry? I think the Arctic Fox actually works better dry but it loads quickly so that doesn't last long before it needs a cleaning. I wonder if a coarser stone will self-clean better.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The cut speeds given are relative to their grit range. That is to say that for a fine stone, the Arctic Fox cuts fast. The Bull Thistle is only a medium cut speed for a coarse stone. The Manticore series was made as something akin to an abrasive file and cuts very quickly and aggressively. Grit size is only one of MANY factors that impact how the stone performs and the Bull Thistle was specifically formulated for setting a toothy scratch pattern to condition your edge without creating as ragged of a burr as stones in its grit range typically do, while also being a hard enough bond to deal well with mildly damaged edges like minor rolls and dings instead of being gouged by them.

As far as the Arctic Fox goes it does not work "better" when dry, but does create a finer edge. It's just recommended that you mostly use it wet to help keep it clean. In a pinch you can do touchups on it dry, but best practice is to keep such work light and to brush the stone clean with your hand as you go.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

You have described using the Bull Thistle to set a scratch pattern on scythes but I feel that on a machete I would not benefit from more tooth than the Arctic Fox provides. (Correct me if I am ignorant.) I have found the Arctic Fox entirely adequate to "deal well with mildly damaged edges like minor rolls and dings." It sounds like the Bull Thistle was not intended for bevel setting. Do you recommend I get the Manticore instead?

Regarding the Arctic Fox I found that when dry it bites with less normal force, that is force perpendicular to the face of the stone. This makes it easier to use one handed with a push stroke like a file. Nevertheless I use it wet when it is convenient to do so.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Machetes being used on lush vegetation definitely still benefit from a toothy scratch pattern, as do slicing knives. While the grit would be considered coarse on most stones it's best to think of the Bull Thistle as being like a medium-coarse stone that leaves the scratch pattern of a coarse stone. The Bull Thistle is able to tackle dings and rolls that would gouge the Arctic Fox and it does well to help maintain the thinness of the bevel, but while suitable for bevel maintenance I would not recommend it for bevel *setting*. That's better done with a file or the Manticore series.

What you're feeling with dry Arctic Fox stone is almost certainly increased friction from the lack of lubrication. You want the stone cutting, not rubbing, and lubrication assists with the cutting action of the abrasive.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

How do you define lush vegetation? Does one use a swing that increases the slice/draw action?

I am undoubtedly feeling increased friction when dry. I understand that lubrication should aid in grinding and it generally feels that way too. However in this specific application I found the increased friction of benefit: the (usually parasitic) friction helps to get more force and pressure into the interface making the stone cut faster. The stone plows into the blade rather than skipping off of it. To get the same force and bite with a lubricated stone I have press harder from above with my fingers, rather than pressing from behind. I will try to draw a force diagram if this doesn't make any sense.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Lush vegetation is just about anything that's not woody. A specific stroke largely isn't needed since the sliding action occurs naturally with targets of that sort.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

FortyTwoBlades I picked up a Bull Thistle American scythe stone. I made a few strokes on an Imacasa machete to see how it felt. You did say "The Bull Thistle is only a medium cut speed for a coarse stone" but actually it seemed less aggressive than the Arctic Fox. I should lap it with #50 SiC?

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Don't confuse the cut speed for the feedback. The Arctic Fox comes from the mold with a surface texture that's rougher than it actually is once "broken in" and the Bull Thistle comes from the mold a little smoother than it settles in at. Just use 'em and they'll wear in to their steady natural texture quite quickly. It's worth noting that the Bull Thistle is intended to be used with higher pressure than the Arctic Fox is, as well.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

It was just as you said. More pressure and the smooth mold surface started breaking down and the stone bit.

Regarding the Arctic Fox I apparently wasn't using enough water. Dripping wet it has good bite.

 

[catspa]

Hey, y’all. So I ordered a B&T stone from Benjamin, and like it better than the file I was using to field sharpen machetes. The pink color helps me not to lose it when I set it down.

I used it dry, and the swarf discolored it, but I didn’t perceive any change in the usage, i.e. it didn’t load up or glaze any. Much better grip and feel than my file, too. When I came back inside, I ran it under the faucet briefly, and 50% or more of the discolor washed right off.

So yeah, I like it. Used it to touch up a little kindling hatchet too, which like a machete benefits from a toothy edge.

Parker