US Military Allowed to use Personal Gear

Thomas J Ekman

Thomas J Ekman

Joined
Jul 29, 2000
Messages
555
I discussed this with my best friend, and wonder if US military troops are allowed to use other items than those issued, such as a personal knife, rather than the Ka-Bar?
 
I know that special forces units such as SEALS and Army Special Force units have a great deal of latitude in these matters. My guess would be that regular line units would have much less choice in the matter although in some units it may be left to the discretion of the commanding officer.

phantom4
 
The answer to this question is a solid "Yes and No."

It truly depends on the Branch of Service (Marine Corps is much more strict than Army in this regard) and your individual unit.

While the Army had no set standards on what kind of knives were acceptable in the field, the Marine Corps Regs, at least back in my day, (said grampa) stated that the use of a USMC KABAR or "similar" was authorized in the field. However, they were not "understanding" about the use of non-issue gear for other purposes and the definition of "similar" was up to the discretion of Unit Commanders.

Of course, in wartime, all this goes out the window as soon as you started packing your "warbag" for the Theater of Operations.
;)
 
Ken Cook is absolutely correct. . .it definitely depends on the branch of service, unit involved and what your job in the unit is.

For example. . .admin pukes are given PC's (used to be typewriters) while shooters are given projectile throwers. ;)

Just kidding. . .

Actually. . ."support gear" (mess kits, sleeping systems, backpacks, boots, long johns, gloves, slings, personal tents, knives, etc. . .) can be sub'd. . .as long as they meet certain "unit" or "field requirements."

No matter the service or unit involved. . .projectile throwers are strictly controlled and there are no personal sub's ! As are the projectiles themselves ! Certain functions will allow a selection to choose from. . . :D
 
Gig, I have heard the same. However, I also tend to read a fair amount on these sort of things and it seems as though things change once G.I.s get "in country". I can recall reading "The Things They Carried" by Tom O'Brien and the list of non-reg weapons that were carried was fairly extensive for the brief list he gave (oxymoron!). Having no personal experience with military service I would like to hear if my conclusion is correct or if it is incorrect.
 
Having taught folks from all branches of the military in small team tactics as well as Hostage recovery ops, there is a certain amount of leeway for cutlery that is carried. Commanders have some options in relationship to mission, terrain, and anticipated operations, which will dictate what they allow their troops to carry. The main reason that militray units try to keep equipment the same (believe it or not) is to deny the enemy anything of intel value. Subtle things in a combat environment will make one individual (or team) stand out, and will in turn make that individual or team a target of greater interest to the enemy.
This is just one of the things that commanders are taught when they attend War College (currently required of command level officers), and one of many factors they will base their decision(s) on.
It may seem as though Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines are being denied "the best" equipment, by not being allowed to carry the blade of thier choice, but in reality, it is designed as a protective measure for the overall force.

When it comes to projectile weapons (firearms), the rules throughout the services are very strict. Only those firearms authorized by the respective service(s) may be carried. Each according to mission. An example of this is the 9mm pistol.........it was not the "best" weapon for a wartime situation, nor was it the simplest for troops to learn. The caliber did however have the unique characteristic of being carried by the majority of NATO countries, which made it an ideal choice for general US forces issue (interchangability of ammo is a prime concern in a wartime scenario)
Often times it may seem like the military is doing things for no appearant reason.........but over 20 years of experience has taught me that each piece of equiment, and each decision that effects the welfare of the troops must be carefully tought through, with the desired outcome being what is best for the majority.
 
My military experience dates back to Nam...army grunt.

Yes, we had to carry military issue for reasons already stated. BUT, we could also carry additional personal preference weapons. ALSO and ADDITIONAL being the operative words. As long as it didn't limit or restrict our ability to perform and the weapon was effective, we could use it.

Randall knives and the Tomahawk are two non-issue, Nam era weapons that you may be familiar with
 
I know that everyhting is well thought through. The problem is that it is thought through by people who don't know what they are doing . That is, knives, boots, rucks, etc. are designed and adopted in order to meet certian specs (which are more oftent ahtn not created by commitees who are NOT experts).

For example, some geius thoguht that it would be a good idea to mandate a cahnge int eh safety for the Beretta before it could be adopted. The frame mounted, "down for fire" safety (perhaps the most natural and ergonomic manual safety design) was replaced with a slide-mounted, "up for fire" safety. The new safety cannot be operated with the dominant hand and must de manipulated with another hand. Terrible human engineering. All that it does is a) make the weapon harder to make ready to fire or b) turn soldiers toward not using the safety at all, relying on the double action nature of the weapon for safety. No advantage, just big disadvantages. Why? Who knows. I would love to hear it.

It seems they are going in the right direction by adopting the new MOLLE gear for rucks and LCE... I just hopw this carries over to other items.

People up the chain of command need to cede the design process to those who know what they are doing.
 
one2gofst

Those who carry personal weapons are few and far between ! I assure you !
 
RifRaf is correct. My experience is also RVN as an Infantryman. In a rifle squad jobs were defined by the type of weapon to a certain degree. In other words, a grenadier had to carry a grenade launcher and a machinegunner had to carry an M60. Most everyone else carried an M16 although a few M14s were available. Officers generally carried CAR15s.

Sidearms and edged weapons showed variety. People carried pretty much what they wanted to although the climate and the terrain were limiting factors. The downside was that if you carried it you had to clean and maintain it. I always thought a sidearm was not worth the effort.
 
It seems the New guys always have a 2 lb knife with a saw blade spine and a hollow steel handle with a compass etc... If not that then something else extra. Wolfhound67 said it all. You have to CARRY it and take care of it. Carrying your personal weapon, ammo, maybe an M-72 or ammo for a GPMG,your food and all the rest of your kit gets old real quick. All of a sudden that 2 lb knife doesn't seem all that practical. Having said that, something smaller like an Emerson CQC-7 is lighter than the issue knife and it would have more options how to carry it ie/ not on my belt. Actually if af anyone carries something extra its usually food!!!After eating rations for a while people will get stupid excited about jerky from home. :eek: :rolleyes:
 
I just came across <a href="http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/">this article</a> on Marines' knives of choice.

<b>The Marines Knife of Choice Today</b>
It's not what you would think, but it is a great idea. Fresh Marines straight out of MCT (military combat training) are given a pay allowance and instructed to purchase a knife and a watch. At a recent graduation exercise at Camp Lejune N.C., I witnessed about 30 Marines line up in the base P.X. buying them. The knife they are "instructed" to purchase is the Gerber Multi-tool. Gone are the days of the MIL-K 818C being in everyone's pocket. Today's warriors are being equipped with the multi-tool for use in the field or on the base. As the standard USMC fighting/utility knife just passed its 57th birthday as an issue knife, it is far from being the knife of choice anymore. Although, when it comes to fixed blades, it is still the number one choice of the new Marines. Tradition dies hard in the Corps, and a "K-bar" at your side says a lot about the warrior. Come to think of it, the Mark 2 is probably the longest serving knife in the history of the military. Can you think of one that has been around longer?
 
Brothers & Sisters of Tactical Opportunity,

Call me old fashioned, (You're old Fashioned!), but the only exception was a multi-tool when they became available. Otherwise the issue equipment was taught and learned to a high degree of capability. "Special Weapons" were usually drafted, designed and produced for a limited number of personnel.
It wasn't the tool but the man, or woman, behind it which breathed life into the Steel. The variations of personal amenities available now is quite subjective. Go with a 'tried-and-true' and master it.

Armorer, next weapon!

During conflicts our forefathers sought out the weapons that they knew well. Our dads, grand-dads, uncles, brothers and cousins would get hold of a wide assortment of familiar weaponry. Sometimes it was due to stateside availability, but ALWAYS because they KNEW the weapon!
We spent months stateside before launching afield. We worked our equipment until it was as much a part of us as we were to it. Days were used to train in unarmed competition. Then we added this gear or that weapon until we were honed.

A few weeks ago I was cleaning, polishing and re-indexing some gear. A young veteran friend of some years came by and we reviewed our latest acquisitions. His knowledge was/is superb. When I got to some of my more exotic items, ("paper-weights", leather 'prods', spring-assisted tools, you know...), his eyes coursed over the layout coming to rest on a simple bali-song. It is one of my oldest, simplest and favorite pieces. "May I? he asked. And with that put on a blazing demonstration with either hand for several minutes.
Rarely does the fluidity and enthusiasm shown match the likes of the acumen I saw in that lads talent!
With a last flip and an application of cleaner, oil and cloth he restored the piece to its place of honor.
"Did you know that I grew up on the streets of Manila?"

We do the best we can with what we know best; therefore, do the best you can with what you've got. Personal gear is what you are issued; 'personalized' gear is what you can afford.

Regards,
Lance Gothic
Shibumi
 
My expirence was also in 'Nam ( 25th Div..arty.). We were given great leeway on blade carry. Everything from the Buck 119, Randalls, Gerbers, hunting knives of all descriptions, and the jeep leaf spring bowie, with the water buffalo handle, and pos sheath I purchasd from the Phillipine Exchange in Tay Ninh. These were tools, not weapons. Firearms werea different thing. We posessed unissued hand guns (Tokarevs S&W .38 spl mod 10, an occasional civilian model .45, or Browning 9mm). We usually chose to be discreet in their carry so as not to give command heartburn.
 
Adressing the Handgun issue a bit further. Yes, it's an increased carry burden, yes, you have to maintain it. But it's damn comforting
to have one when your weapon is leaning against your ruck, and your pants are down around your ankles, squatting over a cathole. :D
 
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