USA Made SOGS?

E

EDCanAdamas

Joined
Sep 8, 2013
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I was at a local hardware store chain and I noticed a SOG Flash II Tanto on the knife rack. On the back of the package it said "assembled in U.S.A.", which is generally a euphemistic term for "it's not really made in the USA". Intrigued, I went to SOG's website and looked up the specs for a few models. What I found was that the Chinese/Imported stuff was still labelled as such, meaning that SOG might actually be moving some elements of their manufacturing operation back to the United States.

I'd be willing to try a knife that is made here using foreign pieces/elements, provided those pieces don't look like pot-metal and the blade steel is not 440A, 420J, or some variant of "Surgical Steel". Granted, assembled and made in the U.S.A. are different, but the former sure beats something coming out of a poorly managed knife sweat shop overseas.

Your thoughts? I have not purchased this knife yet, perhaps you have.
 
Everyone expect nothing but the best of quality in all their purchases.
Unfortunately, its a misconception today to think that all chinese products come from sweat shops.
Their production methods are highly efficient and their produce competitive.
Most have invested in automation because theirs is a numbers game.
The thing with quality control is related to product tolerances set accordingly by the
Respective companies which deal with these oems.
In other words a low rejection rate for those who pay peanuts
And a higher rejection rate for premium goods.
Any cutlery firm which values its customers
Might also carry out qc on its inventory
Before it hits the stores.
A product being domestically manufactured in the US
Is no guarantee of perfection either.
Quality control is the key
And how much loss a company is prepared to absorb through high qc levels
Is what generally results in customer loyalty or the lack of it.
It is commendable for a knife import and marketing company to create
A real manufacturing capability domestically if anything
But to create jobs and and have an experienced pool of talent in the long run.
 
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Chinese knife factories are no longer sweat shops. They are huge highly automated factories designed for maximum mass production
to reap the benefits of economy of scale. Some Pakistani knifemakers probably still qualify as "sweatshops". The Seki Japan factories are about 20% automated and the rest done by hand.
 
I don't think you will see any imports using 440A. SOG used to say that their Seki knives (pre-2007) were 440A but later
admitted that they were actually Aus6A, and simply used the close and more known US standard name. You will find imports
using (or at least claiming to use) 440C from China and Germany. From Japan if it's not Aus8a its VG1 or VG10 predominantly.
You won't see imports with 420j2 either as that's now used mainly as outer laminate material for
Cold Steel and Fallkniven. And we haven't seen the term "Surgical Steel" since the 1980s.
As for powder steel, although I have knives with Cowry-X and 3G, none are SOG products. Truth be told, SOG is really behind
in using modern steels. I don't think SOG has done anything in that area since the Recondo X-42.
 
I don't really care where something is made or assembled. Would I like to support the American work force? Of course, but the reality of our global economy means for most products 95% or so are not going to be available USA made. Where something is made these days does not denote quality as it has in the past. It is not the country that decides on the quality of a product, it is the company. An example is spyderco. The stuff Spyderco puts out that I have seen from Taiwan is on par if not higher quality than the stuff from the US. Spyderco demands the quality of their Taiwan factories. And it comes at a cost. If a company is making crap products in a foreign country, it is not the countries fault, it is the company's.

As for the Flash II in the OP? I would pass. Like I said, it doesn't matter where it is made or assembled. The Quality on the SOG SAT folders is just not consistently there. I would buy something from another company in that price range (USA made Kershaws are of much better quality and materials) or step up your price range and go with a Seki made folder if you are specifically interested in a SOG folder.
 
craytab said:
I got a Flash II in a package deal. The knives that I actually wanted were priced so well, the SOG was almost free. Assisted opening is very strong and positive, with just a tiny bit of blade wiggle. What some describe as light weight, I find myself thinking.....insubstantial, tho' it seems plenty strong. Bear in mind that common edc for me would be along the lines of 4" CS Recon1 or XL Vaquero, so perhaps most pocket knives would strike me as slightly ...umm...frail? I absolutely DO know that I got this knife on a fluke deal and would NEVER consider paying the $40+ bucks @ which they are commonly available. I have several Kershaws which I consider to be much better quality for the same money. YMMV BTW. mine is not marked as to country of origin. shrug
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So is SOG "assembling" products in the USA or not?

I understand the concept of Quality Control a factory environment, but the production of goods in certain countries (China, not Taiwan) needs to be VERY closely supervised because of the tendency they seem to have for creating counterfeits, doing unlicensed factory over-runs (ask Apple how they feel about that), and the temptation to dilute the quality materials they are provided with in order to increase their profits (not the parent company's) at the local end. I understand that not all overseas "economy" factories/manufacturing concerns are like this, but I have had too many bad experiences in the past.

If I have to buy something made with a high degree of automation, and the materials/specs are the same, I'd rather it came from the United States.
 
craytab said:
I don't really care where something is made or assembled. Would I like to support the American work force? Of course, but the reality of our global economy means for most products 95% or so are not going to be available USA made.
QUOTE]

I used to spend (waste?) a lot of time trying to find what I wanted, Made in America...even at somewhat , most times, substantially higher prices. I finally gave up. If the countries of the world, including USA are primarily looking out for themselves, I'm now doing the same....and not losing a wink of sleep. Yes...reality sucks. LOL
Click to expand...
 
EDCanAdamas said:
So is SOG "assembling" products in the USA or not?

I understand the concept of Quality Control a factory environment, but the production of goods in certain countries (China, not Taiwan) needs to be VERY closely supervised because of the tendency they seem to have for creating counterfeits, doing unlicensed factory over-runs (ask Apple how they feel about that), and the temptation to dilute the quality materials they are provided with in order to increase their profits (not the parent company's) at the local end. I understand that not all overseas "economy" factories/manufacturing concerns are like this, but I have had too many bad experiences in the past.

If I have to buy something made with a high degree of automation, and the materials/specs are the same, I'd rather it came from the United States.
Click to expand...

As far as I understand it, yes SOG is "assembling" some models in the U.S. When I visited the G.Sakai factory in Seki last month
I witnessed the manufactirng of Vulcans and Visionary IIs from sheet lazer cutting to final polishing and assembly.
I was told that in addition to the completed folders, they were also shipping some "parts" for assembly in the U.S. I did not bother to ask which models those would be. From my limited experience with some of the US assembled models it is my belief that the problem lies not with the parts or the assembly, but with SOG's assisted open system (SAT).
 
Let's face it guys....ALL large companies are gonna lie to us when they think they can get away with it. You don't really believe all that horseshit on the side of a box of cereal is true...do you???
 
Not sure what SOG is lying about. Their site clearly says "assembled in te US", not "Made in the US".
 
KenHash said:
Not sure what SOG is lying about. Their site clearly says "assembled in te US", not "Made in the US".
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Are you SOG's rep here? That was a wide sweeping generalization, regarding as I clearly said....not a dig at SOG in particular, which you'd know if you'd been clearly reading the thread. "ALL large companies are gonna lie to us" You see the word SOG anywhere?
 
ichor said:
Are you SOG's rep here? That was a wide sweeping generalization, regarding as I clearly said....not a dig at SOG in particular, which you'd know if you'd been clearly reading the thread. "ALL large companies are gonna lie to us" You see the word SOG anywhere?
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No I don't represent SOG or any other knife company.You made that statement in a thread about "USA made SOGs" in the SOG subforum. Therefore the implication is that you were refering either specifically to SOG or at the very least including SOG in your "all large companies". If not, your statement was a "sweeping generalization" that made absolutely no sense in the context of this thread.
Or perhaps you can tell us exactly what "lies" by "whom" you were talking about?
 
What part of ..."That was a wide sweeping generalization",...is so difficult for you to understand??
 
EDCanAdamas said:
So is SOG "assembling" products in the USA or not?

I understand the concept of Quality Control a factory environment, but the production of goods in certain countries (China, not Taiwan) needs to be VERY closely supervised because of the tendency they seem to have for creating counterfeits, doing unlicensed factory over-runs (ask Apple how they feel about that), and the temptation to dilute the quality materials they are provided with in order to increase their profits (not the parent company's) at the local end. I understand that not all overseas "economy" factories/manufacturing concerns are like this, but I have had too many bad experiences in the past.

If I have to buy something made with a high degree of automation, and the materials/specs are the same, I'd rather it came from the United States.
Click to expand...

Putting aside the counterfeit and patten infringement, I still think quality comes down to the company who is commissioning the work. As with my spyderco example above, their expectations are met, and the prices of their Taiwan knives reflect this. It really does come down to you pay for what you get. There is some wiggle room their but not much especially if you demand top quality.

ichor said:
Let's face it guys....ALL large companies are gonna lie to us when they think they can get away with it. You don't really believe all that horseshit on the side of a box of cereal is true...do you???
Click to expand...

Okay, so since you are making this claim here in the SOG subforum in a thread discussing the manufacture of SOG knives, can you please provide evidence to back up your assertion as it relates to SOG in general and the relation to the OP question specifically?
 
ichor said:
What part of ..."That was a wide sweeping generalization",...is so difficult for you to understand??
Click to expand...

I understand the term perfectly well. I'm willing to accept that you made a "sweeping generalization" that had nothing to do with SOG in the SOG subforum
in a thread specifically about "USA made SOGs". Bewildering, but I'll accept it.
So what part the question "perhaps you can tell us exactly what "lies" by "whom" you were talking about?"
is difficult for YOU to understand? Please answer this question and share your knowledge with the rest of us.
If you can't best drop the issue. Thanks.
 
Oh my...I didn't realize that, in the SOG forum...You guys are really sensitive . :rolleyes: I can do without it.
 
Guys, step back, take a deep breath and count to 10.

No need to fallout over a difference of opinion. I hope you can "agree to disagree" and remain on the forum.

Personally, I only buy the old school SOG Seki-Japan made knives and a few of the BG-42 made in USA knives.
I have switched to buying hand-made in the USA knives.

Peace and best regards,
d-1
 
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Whenever the discussion turns to SOG and "Made in USA" comes up, I find it kind of ironic that SOG Knives as a company was founded on knives made in Seki.
Which were in turn "copies" of the original MACV-CISO knives that were made in Japan, and very possibly in Seki as well a couple decades earlier.
I can only recall one or two models that SOG carried that were made in the US, the Recondo being one.
 
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