Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
--Specifications --
The blade is 0.057" thick and about 1" wide. It has a dual sabre-flat primary grind, 0.046" x 0.460" -> 2.9 degrees [to be really picky there is a very light hollow to the primary grinds, beyond the visible) with a secondary chisel ground edge bevel. The edge is 0.005" thick near the base and runs past the visible limit near the tip. The edge angle is difficult to measure because of its size, but it is approximately 20 degrees included. The edge is uniformly sharpened along its length to a fine polish (< 5 micron), can push cut photocopy paper stright down and shaves very well.
This knife has exterior layers of stainless steel forge-welded to a high-carbon steel core of SK-5 at 60±2 RC. The side laminate is 410 stainless steel. The core extends up to about a quarter of an inch and is clearly visible. This combination of steel gives you the edge holding and edge taking ability of a very hard carbon steel combined with the ease of machining and corrosion resistance of the soft stainless steel. Note the edge will obviously corrode just as easily as a plain carbon steel knife so keep it dry and oiled if possible.
Lee Valley recommends sharpening on a 1000 grit water stone which is far more coarse than the NIB finish. They also warn about using sharpening steels, by which I assume they mean the grooved "butchers" steels.
--Stock testing --
The sharpness was tested by push cutting light thread, and slicing 1/4" poly under 1000 g of tension. On the thread 118 +/- 10 g of force was required, 0.45 +/- 0.04 cm on the poly. This performance is among the best I have seen of NIB sharpness. On 3/8" hemp, doing a straight push cut, the blade took ~24 lbs to cut through the cord near the base of the blade which decreased smoothly to ~17 lbs near the tip where the edge was slightly thinner. The blade had little aggression on a slice, the force was reduced to 13-15 lbs on a 2" draw.
For comparison, a modified Henckels paring knife with a fine edge polish took 148 +/- 13 g on the thread, and 0.060 +/- 0.04 cm on the poly. It took 32 - 24 lbs to push cut the hemp (again base to tip), and 20 +/- 1 lbs on a two inch slice. The modification to the Henckels was the application of a very acute relief grind to enhance the cutting ability significantly over the NIB performance (~2:1). The edge is now 0.011" thick by 0.051" wide which is 6.2 degrees per side . It has a slight micro-bevel of 22 degrees per side either with a fine ceramic (<5 micron) or 600 grit DMT finish.
The Japanese blade is both sharper NIB, and with a much higher cutting ability than a freshly sharpen Henckels with an enhanced modified edge geometry. With the Henckels NIB, the performance would not have even been in the same class.
--Misc Kitchen use --
The japanese utility knife was used for several weeks in the kitchen cutting along side other blades to guage its abilities. It was used on various fruits, vegetables, meats and breads. The combination of very high sharpness plus very acute edge geometry gave a level of cutting ability which was significantly ahead of the other production kitchen knives I had, including the ones I had modified. The difference was many to one over the unmodified blades, but even still very significant for the ones I had reground.
For most soft vegetables and fruits, this advantage is not really that critical. When slicing up potatoes for example it was effortless with both the Japanese kitchen knife and the modified Henckels so basically I would not be drawn to one over the other for cutting ability. Though the Japanese knife tends to almost float down through the material, the force required with the modified Henckels is so low I would not call it lacking. However comparing it to unmodified western cutlery, even for the softer foods the difference is significant enough to have me reach for the japanese blade.
It also depends on what you are doing. The japanese blade is very well suited for slicing very thin sections. If you are just hacking up chunks of a few vegetables for a soup, then it is hardly the case that you are going to get tired using an unmodified Henckels Chef's. However if you have a garbage bag of Rhubarb to process, then after an hour of constant dicing you will notice a fairly large difference in the ease of working with the Japanese blade.
The thicker and the denser the vegetables the greater the difference in cutting ability is seen as well. While potatoes are decently loose, fresh turnips are much harder to cut and thus the force difference between the japanese knife and the western blades is magnified and it can handle even thick sections without any excessive rocking, or needing to use your off hand on the spine for additional pressure. Your physical ability is also a factor as well. I loaned the blade to friends with disabilities which limits their hand strengh and control and their positive reaction to it was very extreme.
Note, with some foods a slightly more coarse finish would also give slightly better performance as a straight push cut isn't as effective as a slice. However because of the highly efficient geometry, the unmodified blades I had even with a more coarse finish could not match the japanese blade with its fine polish. With the blade I had reground, when they had a slightly more coarse finish (600 grit DMT), on some materials they would pull ahread of the Japanese blade. Of course you could also leave the finish on the Japanese blade coarse if you wanted, you will see a significant loss in push cutting ability then though. For most use, just a half inch or so at the start of the blade is all you need to leave rough, to enable you to start the cut on tough shelled foods.
--Misc commentary --
This knife has a very ergonomic and comfortable handle, though I would prefer a more aggressive finish as it can get a bit slippery when you are working with oily foods. I much preferred the handle to more squarish Henckels. The knife is also very light and thus generates little fatigue regardless of grip. I used it for many tasks for which you would generally use a paring knife (peeling potatoes), and it did them all very well being so easy to handle, though the wider blade does inhibit tight turning.
The lack of corrosion resistance does however force you to use some care. The blade has to be rinsed frequently after cutting any acidic foods and should not be left wet for any length of time. After dicing up a few onions the edge had already took a visible patina which increased after every similar session even if the blade was very quickly rinsed and dried.
The only real downside to this knife, aside from the corrosion resistance is that the edge is no where near as durable as the common ~55 RC stainless steel production blades. Given the common kitchen misuse (edge contact with pans, plates, other blades etc.) this knife would take major chipping damage. It is also not made to cut bone, and isn't nearly as forgiving as the production stainless blades when used in this manner which will just dent.
--Sharpening--
Because of the high hardness, and assuming that you don't let it rust, the edge will stay sharper significantly longer than the production stainless blades, many to one. When you do need to sharpen it you can try a smooth steel, or hone it as normal on the beveled side, and then on the flat side (primary bevel along the hone), to cut off the burr. The light hollows in the primary grind will enhance the ease of sharpening, as will the laminate nature of the knife.
--Overview --
NIB sharpness : very good
cutting ability : excellent
Handle ergonomics / comfort: very good
Handle security : good
Corrosion resistance : dismal
Edge retention : very good
Durability : dismal
Ease of sharpening : excellent
Grading system :
Excellent - sets a standard
Very good - may be enough to make you want to buy the knife on its own
Good - makes you take note
Average - expected
Fair - doesn't effect performance too badly
Poor - could be enough to make you want to not buy the knife
Dismal - the performance is basically scuttled if it depends at all on this attribute.
The blade is 0.057" thick and about 1" wide. It has a dual sabre-flat primary grind, 0.046" x 0.460" -> 2.9 degrees [to be really picky there is a very light hollow to the primary grinds, beyond the visible) with a secondary chisel ground edge bevel. The edge is 0.005" thick near the base and runs past the visible limit near the tip. The edge angle is difficult to measure because of its size, but it is approximately 20 degrees included. The edge is uniformly sharpened along its length to a fine polish (< 5 micron), can push cut photocopy paper stright down and shaves very well.
This knife has exterior layers of stainless steel forge-welded to a high-carbon steel core of SK-5 at 60±2 RC. The side laminate is 410 stainless steel. The core extends up to about a quarter of an inch and is clearly visible. This combination of steel gives you the edge holding and edge taking ability of a very hard carbon steel combined with the ease of machining and corrosion resistance of the soft stainless steel. Note the edge will obviously corrode just as easily as a plain carbon steel knife so keep it dry and oiled if possible.
Lee Valley recommends sharpening on a 1000 grit water stone which is far more coarse than the NIB finish. They also warn about using sharpening steels, by which I assume they mean the grooved "butchers" steels.
--Stock testing --
The sharpness was tested by push cutting light thread, and slicing 1/4" poly under 1000 g of tension. On the thread 118 +/- 10 g of force was required, 0.45 +/- 0.04 cm on the poly. This performance is among the best I have seen of NIB sharpness. On 3/8" hemp, doing a straight push cut, the blade took ~24 lbs to cut through the cord near the base of the blade which decreased smoothly to ~17 lbs near the tip where the edge was slightly thinner. The blade had little aggression on a slice, the force was reduced to 13-15 lbs on a 2" draw.
For comparison, a modified Henckels paring knife with a fine edge polish took 148 +/- 13 g on the thread, and 0.060 +/- 0.04 cm on the poly. It took 32 - 24 lbs to push cut the hemp (again base to tip), and 20 +/- 1 lbs on a two inch slice. The modification to the Henckels was the application of a very acute relief grind to enhance the cutting ability significantly over the NIB performance (~2:1). The edge is now 0.011" thick by 0.051" wide which is 6.2 degrees per side . It has a slight micro-bevel of 22 degrees per side either with a fine ceramic (<5 micron) or 600 grit DMT finish.
The Japanese blade is both sharper NIB, and with a much higher cutting ability than a freshly sharpen Henckels with an enhanced modified edge geometry. With the Henckels NIB, the performance would not have even been in the same class.
--Misc Kitchen use --
The japanese utility knife was used for several weeks in the kitchen cutting along side other blades to guage its abilities. It was used on various fruits, vegetables, meats and breads. The combination of very high sharpness plus very acute edge geometry gave a level of cutting ability which was significantly ahead of the other production kitchen knives I had, including the ones I had modified. The difference was many to one over the unmodified blades, but even still very significant for the ones I had reground.
For most soft vegetables and fruits, this advantage is not really that critical. When slicing up potatoes for example it was effortless with both the Japanese kitchen knife and the modified Henckels so basically I would not be drawn to one over the other for cutting ability. Though the Japanese knife tends to almost float down through the material, the force required with the modified Henckels is so low I would not call it lacking. However comparing it to unmodified western cutlery, even for the softer foods the difference is significant enough to have me reach for the japanese blade.
It also depends on what you are doing. The japanese blade is very well suited for slicing very thin sections. If you are just hacking up chunks of a few vegetables for a soup, then it is hardly the case that you are going to get tired using an unmodified Henckels Chef's. However if you have a garbage bag of Rhubarb to process, then after an hour of constant dicing you will notice a fairly large difference in the ease of working with the Japanese blade.
The thicker and the denser the vegetables the greater the difference in cutting ability is seen as well. While potatoes are decently loose, fresh turnips are much harder to cut and thus the force difference between the japanese knife and the western blades is magnified and it can handle even thick sections without any excessive rocking, or needing to use your off hand on the spine for additional pressure. Your physical ability is also a factor as well. I loaned the blade to friends with disabilities which limits their hand strengh and control and their positive reaction to it was very extreme.
Note, with some foods a slightly more coarse finish would also give slightly better performance as a straight push cut isn't as effective as a slice. However because of the highly efficient geometry, the unmodified blades I had even with a more coarse finish could not match the japanese blade with its fine polish. With the blade I had reground, when they had a slightly more coarse finish (600 grit DMT), on some materials they would pull ahread of the Japanese blade. Of course you could also leave the finish on the Japanese blade coarse if you wanted, you will see a significant loss in push cutting ability then though. For most use, just a half inch or so at the start of the blade is all you need to leave rough, to enable you to start the cut on tough shelled foods.
--Misc commentary --
This knife has a very ergonomic and comfortable handle, though I would prefer a more aggressive finish as it can get a bit slippery when you are working with oily foods. I much preferred the handle to more squarish Henckels. The knife is also very light and thus generates little fatigue regardless of grip. I used it for many tasks for which you would generally use a paring knife (peeling potatoes), and it did them all very well being so easy to handle, though the wider blade does inhibit tight turning.
The lack of corrosion resistance does however force you to use some care. The blade has to be rinsed frequently after cutting any acidic foods and should not be left wet for any length of time. After dicing up a few onions the edge had already took a visible patina which increased after every similar session even if the blade was very quickly rinsed and dried.
The only real downside to this knife, aside from the corrosion resistance is that the edge is no where near as durable as the common ~55 RC stainless steel production blades. Given the common kitchen misuse (edge contact with pans, plates, other blades etc.) this knife would take major chipping damage. It is also not made to cut bone, and isn't nearly as forgiving as the production stainless blades when used in this manner which will just dent.
--Sharpening--
Because of the high hardness, and assuming that you don't let it rust, the edge will stay sharper significantly longer than the production stainless blades, many to one. When you do need to sharpen it you can try a smooth steel, or hone it as normal on the beveled side, and then on the flat side (primary bevel along the hone), to cut off the burr. The light hollows in the primary grind will enhance the ease of sharpening, as will the laminate nature of the knife.
--Overview --
NIB sharpness : very good
cutting ability : excellent
Handle ergonomics / comfort: very good
Handle security : good
Corrosion resistance : dismal
Edge retention : very good
Durability : dismal
Ease of sharpening : excellent
Grading system :
Excellent - sets a standard
Very good - may be enough to make you want to buy the knife on its own
Good - makes you take note
Average - expected
Fair - doesn't effect performance too badly
Poor - could be enough to make you want to not buy the knife
Dismal - the performance is basically scuttled if it depends at all on this attribute.
.
