Variable speed viel 1x42 or dayton 2x42?

G

googlebutt

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Jun 4, 2018
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After a lot of thought, I'm not ready to commit to a 2x72. Mostly due to space constraints, finances and free time. That's led me down hours of research on smaller machines: the 1x30s, Kalamazoo 2FSM, dayton 2x42, and the viel 1x42 with the penn variable speed motor. This will be used for stock removal.

I've narrowed it down to the variable speed viel 1x42 that uses the Penn State industries 1/2hp variable speed DC motor kit, or the dayton.

https://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/belt.htm

https://www.pennstateind.com/store/TCLVSKIT.html

The viel looks like a better built machine, variable speed out of the box, 1/2hp, but 1" wide belts.

The dayton will require more mods, fiddling, runs too fast out of the box (although I'm 99% sure I can slow it down using that same penn industries motor, belt and pulley.), 1/3hp and obviously uses 2" belts.

What do you guys think?
 
I had the Kalamazoo 1x42 fixed speed and it was great. But I often wished for a wider belt. So I say go for the Dayton 2x42 if you can make it work.
 
Roamad said:
I had the Kalamazoo 1x42 fixed speed and it was great. But I often wished for a wider belt. So I say go for the Dayton 2x42 if you can make it work.
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That's my thought as well. I'm fairly confident that I can make that little variable speed kit work on the dayton. Either with a lovejoy coupler for direct drive, or a belt and pulley. While it's not a tefc 56c/vfd combo, is a third of the cost and should still be better than stock.
 
I have the Viel (I do not have variable speed on it). I can’t say that I would recommend it. It’s a sturdy enough functional little grinder, but the tracking is rather garbage. The top wheel is the tension setting and the tracking setting. Tension is just a spring inside the square tube that the strip of steel holding the wheel drops into. I had to add a shin to get sufficient tension for the belt to not slip. The tracking is by two little screws on either side of the strips attached to the wheel. Because the wheel is on this elongated U and not a full square tube, the sides flex in when you tighten the tracking screws. It will also pivot on the screws. Getting the belt to track at the edge of the platen is nigh impossible.
 
Roger that. I just placed an order for the Daytona. Does anyone have any thoughts on using that 1/2hp motor for a low cost bypass to the stock 1/3hp?
 
If you are only really looking to use the flat platen (I think that would be all that’s available to you on the Dayton), an alternate to consider is a disc grinder. You can’t get much more compact, it’s not expensive if you piece together your own, unlike a self built belt grinder the making your own only consists of wiring and screwing a disc onto a motor shaft, and you can use 9x11 sheets of sandpaper meaning no “oh crap I need to order and wait for more belts” moments when you get that unexpected couple hours to work on knives you didn’t plan for (not saying that happens to me, no never, I’m always prepared....). Here’s the components list for the one I built:

Worldwide Electric 1/2 hp 3ph motor: $63 (Amazon)
KBWA-23D VFD: $133 (KB-Controls)
9” Beveled Disc: $83 (USA Knifemaker)

Total: $279

QCrQz44.jpg
 
That's something I hadn't considered. Can you grind in such a way that the sparks always go downwards?

Looks like I can get that little dc motor kit for $90, the other option is a 1hp/kbac-24d combo for around $400. Both will be adapted direct drive via lovejoy s flex. Obviously the latter is the better buy, as I can move it to a 2x72 in the future, but I can do the same with the dc kit and a 1x30 for sharpening.

Anyway, opting for the 1hp kit will basically deplete my consumables budget. Do you guys think that the variable 1/2hp dc kit will add a significant amount of usability to the dayton? I don't know if it's worth 4x the cost for another 1/2 hp on this little grinder.
 
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googlebutt said:
That's something I hadn't considered. Can you grind in such a way that the sparks always go downwards?
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The VFD has a reverse switch, so you just reverse direction based on which side of the disc you are grinding on. The disc also has a 1 degree bevel. Due to that bevel when you cross the center line the steel isn’t touching the far side of the disc where the direction of grit and spark travel would be up.

As far as a bigger motor on a smaller belt grinder goes, the general notion of more power is so it doesn’t bog under heavy pressure grinding. It seems most of the smaller belt grinders are just as likely to be slipping the belt before you can actually bog down the motor.
 
lanternnate said:
The VFD has a reverse switch, so you just reverse direction based on which side of the disc you are grinding on. The disc also has a 1 degree bevel. Due to that bevel when you cross the center line the steel isn’t touching the far side of the disc where the direction of grit and spark travel would be up.

As far as a bigger motor on a smaller belt grinder goes, the general notion of more power is so it doesn’t bog under heavy pressure grinding. It seems most of the smaller belt grinders are just as likely to be slipping the belt before you can actually bog down the motor.
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I see! I think a decent compromise might be to get your motor and vfd combo for my 2x42 since it's already on in order, and then swap in a disk if it's not working for me.

That vfd isn't nema 4, correct? How are you protecting it from dust?
 
googlebutt said:
I see! I think a decent compromise might be to get your motor and vfd combo for my 2x42 since it's already on in order, and then swap in a disk if it's not working for me.

That vfd isn't nema 4, correct? How are you protecting it from dust?
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I'd love to see what you end up with. I currently have a Dayton 2x42 which I ordered from Granger for $150. I'd love an easy, cheap way to slow it down.

Any other modifications you come up with would be cool to see!

JK
 
I’m watching this thread. Id also like to know how this grinder works out for you. I’ve been using a 4x32 grinder for 2 years now and I’ve finally gotten to the point where I can identify the cons of my grinder over my skill. I’d really love a 2” belt sander but don’t have the money for a $1,000-$2,000 2x72 yet. I wouldn’t mind having to buy a few mods to make the grinder better as I go. A glass/granite platen seems like a smart decision of a grinder like this, the stock platen looks a bit flimsy.

Kevin
 
Some YouTube videos of the Dayon/Craftsman/Palmgren 2x42:

Mods (Ceramic Tile):

Mod (Variable Speed)

Review:
 
running bird said:
I’m watching this thread. Id also like to know how this grinder works out for you. I’ve been using a 4x32 grinder for 2 years now and I’ve finally gotten to the point where I can identify the cons of my grinder over my skill. I’d really love a 2” belt sander but don’t have the money for a $1,000-$2,000 2x72 yet. I wouldn’t mind having to buy a few mods to make the grinder better as I go. A glass/granite platen seems like a smart decision of a grinder like this, the stock platen looks a bit flimsy.

Kevin
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Kevin,

I'm currently progressing through my 2x42 adventure, as soon as I'm happy with it I'll write up an in depth post. Currently waiting on is my KBAC-24d, which should be here tomorrow, and a piece of 3x2x1/4 angle iron which will replace the stock platen (with a ceramic glass on top of that). I had to sand the arbor on the 2x42 to fit the sheave on. In hindsight I should have just drilled out the sheave a couple thousandths, but utilizing the stock bolt straightened everything up nicely.

I have my first knife ready to heat treat, and I realized I don't have the time required to do everything by hand. As a hobbyist, my goal with this project is to have a mobile, compact and cheap belt grinder setup to help speed things up.

Here's the 2x42 and motor mounted to a couple pieces of plywood, and then secure to a HF service cart. My reasoning behind this setup is that since I'm not ready to drop the cash required for an effective dust control system, I'm going to scoot to the garage door or in the backyard and blow the dust out with a fan (with a respirator of course). The cart isn't as sturdy as I would like, I'll likely add a couple pieces of plate between the casters and the bottom shelf.

LfAtlGf.jpg



With the fan set up:

Y3c3fW2.jpg


Close up of the sheave, I'm replacing the traditional v belt with a power twist, just a tester:

5snJs8T.jpg


Bonus shot of my Atlas:

SZfCPd3.jpg
 
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Fwiw, you can always run a 1” belt on 2” machine.
I know its not answer to lifes mysteries, but allows some versatility.
 
Googlebutt,

I also have my grinder set up on a mobile cart, infact all my equipment is on carts. It’s really handy when you have limeted space to work with. Me and my dad share our garage so being able to wheel things around it’s a plus. Just be sure you have wheels you can lock. some of my carts are very old industrial work stations I got from factories around town. While the wheels are very heavy duty they don’t have locks, and on uneven sections of the garage they tend to roll side to side.

I’m familiar with the belt system you have set up to adjust the speed for the grinder. I have an old grinding wheel I got with one of my carts that uses a similar set up. Thanks for sharing, I’m going to be getting the Dayton some time this month. I’ll try to remember to check in here once I get mine set up.

I originally had the money saved up to get a decent 2x72, but as I’m sure happens with all of us life changes and you have to shift savings around. But I don’t see how this set up wouldn’t do the job I need it to do, while saving a lot of money.

Kevin
 
Hey Kevin, I'll have to look into some replacement casters for this HF service cart. Fingers crossed that it's a normal bolt pattern!

I got everything up and running, it works! I removed some of the rear guard to accept a 40 grit belt, which weakened the structure a bit, causing some vibration and resonance at 2 points in the RPM range (you can hear it when I get to 80% in the videa), but it's smooth for the rest of the range. I'm thinking that my angle iron platen will stiffen everything up.

I set the fan up and played around with a paint stir stick and sure enough, the dust is sent right out the garage door.

By the way, I'm using a $35 1/2hp 3450rpm motor I found on amazon. If I find I'm bogging it down regularly, I'll pick up an Ironhorse 1hp 1800rpm.

Here's a quick video:
 
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I've completed a few more modifications, namely replaced my platen with angle iron/precision ground o1/ceramic glass, and added a piece of angle down the back. The angle iron down the back removed any flex when tensioning the belt, and massively reduced vibration. I actually snapped the stock work rest trying to bend it perfectly flat, so I'll have to replace that after I get decent at free handing and want to try a jig.

 
Good job! I started with a Dayton 2x48 fixed speed. And I had it all modded out! Was cheap, and did well by me for several years!

You seem fairly handy. Do a bit of research, and you will find how to easily convert your machine to 2x72. I converted my 2x48 after I had it a short time. Converting to the 72” belts was the BEST thing I did with it. Had a handy, light and most importantly, “CHEAP” 2x72! It was only this past spring I finally did a full custom 2x72 build of my own design. Ultimately, you’ll do the same in time, but I do like what you’ve done so far.

Being a DIY’er is an awesome thing!
 
googlebutt said:
I've completed a few more modifications, namely replaced my platen with angle iron/precision ground o1/ceramic glass, and added a piece of angle down the back. The angle iron down the back removed any flex when tensioning the belt, and massively reduced vibration. I actually snapped the stock work rest trying to bend it perfectly flat, so I'll have to replace that after I get decent at free handing and want to try a jig.

Click to expand...

This is excellent! Solid work. I have this Dayton grinder... I think it works out to around 50 surface miles per hour! This gives me some ideas.


One Armed said:
Good job! I started with a Dayton 2x48 fixed speed. And I had it all modded out! Was cheap, and did well by me for several years!

You seem fairly handy. Do a bit of research, and you will find how to easily convert your machine to 2x72. I converted my 2x48 after I had it a short time. Converting to the 72” belts was the BEST thing I did with it. Had a handy, light and most importantly, “CHEAP” 2x72! It was only this past spring I finally did a full custom 2x72 build of my own design. Ultimately, you’ll do the same in time, but I do like what you’ve done so far.

Being a DIY’er is an awesome thing!
Click to expand...

Do you have any pictures of your conversion? My interest is peaked!
 
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