Venev Orion Stones New Measurements and Cleaning Help

[77Blade]

Hello, Newbie here. So I apologize in advanced for my ignorance.

1. I purchased a set of the Venev Orion Stones and was wondering if the caliber measurements I took on them shown below is with in range of new stones ( I have sharpened 3 knives and cleaned them with a 8000 grit Nagura)? You will notice the F800 are less a bit thinner than the others. I'm sure I'm just being anal as always, but would just like to confirm from y'alls knowledge.
And, are they within an acceptable flatness range, some are off by a few tenths of a mm.

2. Will cleaning these stones with the Nagura wear the stones or is it so slight it is ok to clean with Nagura after each use, and how many knives will these stones sharpen before needing to be replaced? Also, what is the preferred method of cleaning these stones?

 

[777 Edge]

Hello, Newbie here. So I apologize in advanced for my ignorance.

1. I purchased a set of the Venev Orion Stones and was wondering if the caliber measurements I took on them shown below is with in range of new stones ( I have sharpened 3 knives and cleaned them with a 8000 grit Nagura)? You will notice the F800 are less a bit thinner than the others. I'm sure I'm just being anal as always, but would just like to confirm from y'alls knowledge.
And, are they within an acceptable flatness range, some are off by a few tenths of a mm.

2. Will cleaning these stones with the Nagura wear the stones or is it so slight it is ok to clean with Nagura after each use, and how many knives will these stones sharpen before needing to be replaced? Also, what is the preferred method of cleaning these stones?

Your measurements seem to be within the normal range for these stones. You probably already do this, but I would suggest to always check and adjust the angle every time you swap any sharpening stone, it's a good habit to get into. I'm assuming you use a fixed angle sharpening system. Even if some stones are exactly the same when new, any resin / binder based stones will wear out differently (especially the coarse ones), so invariably they will all be slightly different.

You are correct in assuming that using your Nagura on them will very slightly abrade the bond of the Venev stones (and other bonded stones), but definitely not excessively. There is no real need to do it every single time you sharpen, you can generally just clean them with a nylon brush, dish soap and water after sharpening. When they start to load up a lot, then use the Nagura to clean & condition them. They will be slightly more aggressive again when freshly cleaned with your Nagura(especially the fine grit ones), but they settle in again quickly after 50 or so strokes.

Hope this helps!

 

[3D Anvil]

My F800 stone is also the odd-man out, being a little thinner than the others. After 777 suggested that I zero the angle on the stone holder between stones rather than the clamp arm, I've noticed that no adjustment is necessary for the first four stones, but I have to lower the angle by .2° for the F800 (@ 15° dps).

 

[77Blade]

you can generally just clean them with a nylon brush, dish soap and water after sharpening

would using a Magic Eraser work the same as this, or in what oder should I use these two methods.


Thanks for you help I see you are the man. I did buy from Gritomatic by the way. great service.

 

[777 Edge]

would using a Magic Eraser work the same as this, or in what oder should I use these two methods.


Thanks for you help I see you are the man. I did buy from Gritomatic by the way. great service.

A magic eraser will clean, but I don't like how they disintegrate on the coarse stones. It does better on the fine stones. Personally, I far prefer a nylon brush and soapy water.

For regular maintenance, just open your tap for a trickle of water, hold the stone under it and use a nylon brush / firm bristle toothbrush and liquid dish soap + water to give them a little scrub. That's really all that's necessary for regular cleaning. Let them dry before storing them.

On the occasion that you recondition them with a Nagura, then cleaning with soapy water is not really necessary. The Nagura slurry rinses off easy with plain water.

 

[77Blade]

A magic eraser will clean, but I don't like how they disintegrate on the coarse stones. It does better on the fine stones. Personally, I far prefer a nylon brush and soapy water.

For regular maintenance, just open your tap for a trickle of water, hold the stone under it and use a nylon brush / firm bristle toothbrush and liquid dish soap + water to give them a little scrub. That's really all that's necessary for regular cleaning. Let them dry before storing them.

On the occasion that you recondition them with a Nagura, then cleaning with soapy water is not really necessary. The Nagura slurry rinses off easy with plain water.

I'm glad you've been served well by the rest of the Gritomatic team.

So here is a picture of my stones after just one sharpening and washed with dawn dish soap, water, and toothbrush. Do these look clean enough or should I be trying to remove the black streak on the F800 and F1200 stones? if so, that would require the Nagura stone or maybe I should try some Bar Keepers Friend.

 

[777 Edge]

That little bit of swarf won't have any real effect on your sharpening. It looks bad visually, but the diamonds still protrude through the swarf until it's very heavily loaded. I would say there is no real need to remove it just yet.

Bar keepers friend will clean up most of it, and also remove a tiny bit of bond but will not be an issue. A Nagura will maybe remove ever so slightly more of the bond than Bar keepers friend, but still very little.

If the swarf bugs you, then by all means use Bar keepers friend or your Nagura. It doesn't do any damage. (I know sometimes I also just like to store my stones clean when I know I'm not gonna use them for a while)

 

[77Blade]

So is it fine to just rinse with water and put aside for next use until they truly need cleaning, maybe I’m too worried about cleaning after each use.

 

[777 Edge]

So is it fine to just rinse with water and put aside for next use until they truly need cleaning, maybe I’m too worried about cleaning after each use.

Yes, it's absolutely fine for quite a number of sessions. Once you get used to the stones, you'll feel when they don't cut as well as they should.

 

[77Blade]

Do you have a suggestion for a reprofiling stone that is more aggressive than the F80 Venev to be used on the TSPROF Kadet? I’m having to put in a lot of effort to clean to shape the tip on my PM2’s

 

[777 Edge]

Do you have a suggestion for a reprofiling stone that is more aggressive than the F80 Venev to be used on the TSPROF Kadet? I’m having to put in a lot of effort to clean to shape the tip on my PM2’s

Give a diamond plated stone a try if you want to remove more metal, faster. Do be aware that they are also more aggressive on a delicate edge though.

Gritomatic sells a basic diamond set, or you could find them on Amazon, eBay or AliExpress. They are very inexpensive, and even the ones made in China (with a plastic backing) work well. Use soapy water when sharpening with them and they will last a lot longer compared to using them dry.

Diamond plated stones are more aggressive on your edge, but they remove metal faster because the diamonds are plated on top of a metal plate. The Venev stones (and other resin or sintered diamond stones) have diamonds embedded inside of a bond. After using a coarse diamond plated stone, you can refine the edge with the Venev stones very nicely.

One of the nicest re-profiling stones around is the Gritomatic Metallic bonded CBN 120 stone. It's Cubic Boron Nitride inside of a metallic bond, not plated on top of metal. The grit size, loading and composition just combine to work incredibly well to remove metal fast while not being too excessively harsh on an edge. The only thing is... they are very expensive.

 

[3D Anvil]

Diemaker recommends playground sand for lapping his coarsest bonded diamond stone. I didn't feel like storing a 25 lbs bag of sand for that purpose, so I bought a small bag of 37 grit sic powder from Amazon, which seems to work fine on the Venev F80.

 

[3D Anvil]

One of the nicest re-profiling stones around is the Gritomatic Metallic bonded CBN 120 stone. It's Cubic Boron Nitride inside of a metallic bond, not plated on top of metal. The grit size, loading and composition just combine to work incredibly well to remove metal fast while not being too excessively harsh on an edge. The only thing is... they are very expensive.

On your advice I ordered that CBN stone, which should arrive tomorrow. I'm reading that the best way to dress those stones is with ferric chloride? I've seen videos of people doing it with bench stones, but how does that work with the aluminum backing?

 

[777 Edge]

On your advice I ordered that CBN stone, which should arrive tomorrow. I'm reading that the best way to dress those stones is with ferric chloride? I've seen videos of people doing it with bench stones, but how does that work with the aluminum backing?

Wow, nice one 3D Anvil ! It is not a cheap stone, but I think you'll like it.

I've used mine a fair bit (on all of my high vanadium carbide knives) and have not needed to treat it with ferric chloride yet. A good dish soap or BKF scrub has worked for me so far to keep mine going strong. I don't use mine on basic or softer steels, so I can't comment on how much quicker it would wear out or load up with basic steels.

When I do eventually refresh mine, I don't plan on dunking it completely in ferric chloride.(Exactly for the reason you mentioned - the aluminum backing) I plan on taping up the sides and bottom and then carefully painting on ferric chloride with an old paint brush and then rinse it and repeat a few times.

 

[3D Anvil]

Thanks, that's what I figured I'd have to do to dress it eventually. I'll try a rust eraser with soapy water for general cleanup. I reckon that should do a pretty good job.

 

[Diemaker]

I finally got a chance to try out the set of Orions I got last Monday, but since I got them to do a very thorough review for my own needs the first thing is to measure them so here is what mine measure:

F80 - 6.63/6.2 or .261"/.244 difference of .017"
F150 - 6.5/6.38 or .256"/.251" difference of .005"
F240 - 6.71/6.27 or .264"/.247" difference of .017"
F400 - 6.32/6.17 or .249"/.243" difference of .006"
F800 - 6.3/6.22 or .248"/.245" difference of .003"
F1200 - 6.32/6.02 or .249"/.237" difference of .012"

Since I have noticed that much more than .01" difference in thickness between stones will be noticed as inconsistent grinding on the bevel I didn't try them. I can compensate for this between stones but not when the stone is that far out itself, especially on the finer grits. I also noticed that all but the F80 is quite bowed so I need to measure that as well to get a better idea of the total deviation on these stones. Also, the 45 degree bevels on the ends are not even close to 45 degrees. Once done I will post my findings, like I did around 2 years ago, but now I have a BESS tester so I can add those results as well. I know I am expected to be biased but at least it will be food for thought.

 

[cudgee]

and even the ones made in China (with a plastic backing) work well.

I think i remember you telling Dan, wherever you are???, and he tried them and told me about them. I bought 3 just to try them out, and they have worked for me. I fully understand that they are budget stones and not for everyone, but for anyone on a budget or who wants to try out some diamond stones, these are good value. I just use water with a dash of detergent, but for the price you can replace them easily. As i said not for everyone, but i just finished a Carbon butchers knife @1200 grit today, and it is as sharp as anyone would need for a butchers knife. Even with these stones though there does seem varying quality the ones i got were from Aidee and they work well.

 

[777 Edge]

I finally got a chance to try out the set of Orions I got last Monday, but since I got them to do a very thorough review for my own needs the first thing is to measure them so here is what mine measure:

F80 - 6.63/6.2 or .261"/.244 difference of .017"
F150 - 6.5/6.38 or .256"/.251" difference of .005"
F240 - 6.71/6.27 or .264"/.247" difference of .017"
F400 - 6.32/6.17 or .249"/.243" difference of .006"
F800 - 6.3/6.22 or .248"/.245" difference of .003"
F1200 - 6.32/6.02 or .249"/.237" difference of .012"

Since I have noticed that much more than .01" difference in thickness between stones will be noticed as inconsistent grinding on the bevel I didn't try them. I can compensate for this between stones but not when the stone is that far out itself, especially on the finer grits. I also noticed that all but the F80 is quite bowed so I need to measure that as well to get a better idea of the total deviation on these stones. Also, the 45 degree bevels on the ends are not even close to 45 degrees. Once done I will post my findings, like I did around 2 years ago, but now I have a BESS tester so I can add those results as well. I know I am expected to be biased but at least it will be food for thought.

I've said it before and I'll say it again D Diemaker . The quality of workmanship, accuracy, tolerances and diamond size consistency of your CGSW stones are absolutely top notch. I have not found the same quality of manufacturing from any other stone manufacturers so far. That's something you can be very proud of.

With the level of perfection you manufacture your own stones, you'll be hard pressed to find anything else that comes even close.

Give the Venevs a quick flattening and a good sharpening workout and you'll find they produce a phenomenal edge.

Sadly, the Venev stones are going to become as rare as hen's teeth very soon with how hard it is getting to get products out of the Ukraine & Russian part of the world right now. Let's hope we don't completely lose them as an option in the future.

 

[cudgee]

Sadly, the Venev stones are going to become as rare as hen's teeth very soon with how hard it is getting to get products out of the Ukraine & Russian

Luckily i have mine already, and not being a professional sharpener, mine will outlast me.

 

[77Blade]

Give a diamond plated stone a try if you want to remove more metal, faster. Do be aware that they are also more aggressive on a delicate edge though.

Gritomatic sells a basic diamond set, or you could find them on Amazon, eBay or AliExpress. They are very inexpensive, and even the ones made in China (with a plastic backing) work well. Use soapy water when sharpening with them and they will last a lot longer compared to using them dry.

Diamond plated stones are more aggressive on your edge, but they remove metal faster because the diamonds are plated on top of a metal plate. The Venev stones (and other resin or sintered diamond stones) have diamonds embedded inside of a bond. After using a coarse diamond plated stone, you can refine the edge with the Venev stones very nicely.

One of the nicest re-profiling stones around is the Gritomatic Metallic bonded CBN 120 stone. It's Cubic Boron Nitride inside of a metallic bond, not plated on top of metal. The grit size, loading and composition just combine to work incredibly well to remove metal fast while not being too excessively harsh on an edge. The only thing is... they are very expensive.

so would the

TSProf Diamond Plate Set for Edge Pro stating at 150 grit cut faster than the Venev 80 and then move to the 220 plated stone and then back down to the Venvev 80. would that be a goo progression. or do you suggest something else. I purchased a kms "beast" 50 grit, but that thing looks like it should be reserved for broken tips. Also considered the Jende, but they are a bit more expensive.​