Venev Ursa Set vs Centaur Set

[Revival29]

Just received my Hapstone R2 + accessories today. I also purchased the Venev Ursa set and didn’t realize that the width of the stone was only 0.6” wide even though it clearly has it listed. My fault.

I was thinking about returning it and purchasing the Venev Centaur set. Coming from Edge Pro and the KME, I am used to the 1” wide stones.

Are there any benefits to using a 0.6” wide stone over the 1” wide stone?

Everything in both sets are identical besides the width of the stones correct?

777 Edge

Thanks

 

[crn3371]

This is copied from my Boride T2 thread. 777 Edge recommended the Ursa’s and said he actually preferred them over the 1” Centaur’s.

What @scottc3 said above.

You mentioned only getting one set of stones, and having a hawkbill blade, so the slightly narrower ones will be your best bet if you only wanted 1 stone set.

The other reason I like the 0.6 inch Ursa stones more than my 1 inch Centaur stones, it how they seem to feel over the curves of a blade. I like their feedback (being slightly narrower), and I like how they move over the belly of a blade. I also like the fact that with the weight of your hand and the slightly narrower width of them at 0.6 inch compared to the common 1 inch standard, they seem to just give the perfect amount of sharpening force needed.

 

[crn3371]

I just received my R2 today. I haven’t had a chance to use it yet, I will say that with the narrower stones you have to be careful placing them in the holder. I can see where the aluminum backed stones would offer a more secure fit since they lock into the grooves on the holders. I bought the Ursa’s for budgetary reasons, I’m curious as to how I’ll get along with them

 

[Revival29]

This is copied from my Boride T2 thread. 777 Edge recommended the Ursa’s and said he actually preferred them over the 1” Centaur’s.

Appreciate that info. It does appear that he was replying to someone that had hawksbill. I don’t have any hawkbill blades.

 

[Revival29]

I just received my R2 today. I haven’t had a chance to use it yet, I will say that with the narrower stones you have to be careful placing them in the holder. I can see where the aluminum backed stones would offer a more secure fit since they lock into the grooves on the holders. I bought the Ursa’s for budgetary reasons, I’m curious as to how I’ll get along with them

All of my stuff is sitting at home while I’m at work. I just peeked in each box before I left.

 

[crn3371]

I’m the one with the Hawkbill

 

[Revival29]

I’m the one with the Hawkbill

Ah ok.

 

[cudgee]

Ah ok.

The smaller width stones are good for small/smaller pocket knives, but if you don't have many of them see if you can swap them. But if you have a variety of knives which may expand into the future and you can afford it get the 1 inch wide ones as well. These stones are going to last you a long time, so they are a good long term investment. Decide on your needs, and what is best for you both physically and economically.

 

[777 Edge]

Just received my Hapstone R2 + accessories today. I also purchased the Venev Ursa set and didn’t realize that the width of the stone was only 0.6” wide even though it clearly has it listed. My fault.

I was thinking about returning it and purchasing the Venev Centaur set. Coming from Edge Pro and the KME, I am used to the 1” wide stones.

Are there any benefits to using a 0.6” wide stone over the 1” wide stone?

Everything in both sets are identical besides the width of the stones correct?

777 Edge

Thanks

I prefer my Ursa stones to my Centaur ones. Honestly, I kind of wish more companies would make the slightly narrower than 1" stones.

The Ursa stones are more versatile and will sharpen a wider range of knife grinds than the Centaur ones will. If you don't ever plan on anything other than basic grinds for your knife collection, then the Centaur or other 1" stones will suit you just fine.

Like quoted above by C crn3371 about what I mentioned in the other thread, I do prefer them not only for their versatility, but also for their feel. I don't apply a lot of force when sharpening, so I find that the 0.6" stones just seem to give better feedback and feel over the edge while sharpening.

 

[Revival29]

I prefer my Ursa stones to my Centaur ones. Honestly, I kind of wish more companies would make the slightly narrower than 1" stones.

The Ursa stones are more versatile and will sharpen a wider range of knife grinds than the Centaur ones will. If you don't ever plan on anything other than basic grinds for your knife collection, then the Centaur or other 1" stones will suit you just fine.

Like quoted above by @cnr3371 about what I mentioned in tbe other thread, I do prefer them not only for their versatility, but also for their feel. I don't apply a lot of force when sharpening, so I find that the 0.6" stones just seem to give better feedback and feel over the edge while sharpening.

Appreciate the info as always.

Hey C crn3371 , go sharpen something so you can let me know what you think about them…haha

Decisions decisions

 

[777 Edge]

I just received my R2 today. I haven’t had a chance to use it yet, I will say that with the narrower stones you have to be careful placing them in the holder. I can see where the aluminum backed stones would offer a more secure fit since they lock into the grooves on the holders. I bought the Ursa’s for budgetary reasons, I’m curious as to how I’ll get along with them

You'll find they seat perfectly fine in the R2. Just open the sliding spring stone clamp, seat the Ursa stones in the center and push them down all the way and close the clamps.

Have a careful look at your R2 stone clamps and you'll see that the stone holder on the R2 stone clamp actually swivels/rotates side to side ever so slightly. See that? It's not because it is loose or anything, they designed it this way for a good reason.

It's designed this way specifically to be able to work with stones that do not have a backing. It swivels slightly as needed to grip the flat (but not always 100% perfectly square) stone ends.

Hapstone added this to their newer stone clamps, their older generation stone clamps do not have that feature which meant they were very finicky and never held onto stones without backing as well without repositioning swiveling the stones a little bit. TSPROF now also added that "swivel" feature to some of their latest stone clamps. My older Hapstone V7, M2 and my R1 didn't have this feature. They still held onto non-backed stones alright, but the updated stone clamps in the R2 is just so much better.

The clamps work well with stones with or without backing.

 

[777 Edge]

Appreciate the info as always.

Hey C crn3371 , go sharpen something so you can let me know what you think about them…haha

Decisions decisions

My pleasure!

Looking forward to hearing about it when you've logged some time on your new R2. Give it a go and let us know.

 

[crn3371]

If one wanted to add a strop, what would be a good grit to use? It looks like the 1200 Venev stone is around 3 micron, so 1 micron paste?

 

[777 Edge]

If one wanted to add a strop, what would be a good grit to use? It looks like the 1200 Venev stone is around 3 micron, so 1 micron paste?

Actually, you'll find that you need to go higher on the grits with paste to compliment the "same" grit stones. The paste does not have the same harsh grinding effect on an edge as a stone has, so you can go much higher in grit.

You'll likely find (depending on the substrate used in your strop of choice), that you can even get an improved edge with (for example) a 20 micron paste after a 3 micron stone. I would say, start with about 10 micron diamond paste (again, depending on the substrate) after your 3 micron stone.

With some experimenting, I've even found the 60 micron venev paste on leather to (sometimes) improve a 3 micron stone edge, but I wouldn't go that high on the paste after a 3 micron stone. I just mention this for some food for thought.

Now, your end result moving through the pastes and if you want to progress all the way to 0.5 micron will depend on what you want from your edge.

 

[crn3371]

I plan to start off on some cheap knives, I’m guessing that the 1200 stone is going to leave leave things plenty sharp as it is. That being said, is a strop even necessary in order to obtain a sharp edge?

 

[777 Edge]

I plan to start off on some cheap knives, I’m guessing that the 1200 stone is going to leave leave things plenty sharp as it is. That being said, is a strop even necessary in order to obtain a sharp edge?

The 1200 venev edge will leave an edge More finished than what you would need for 90% of daily use. In fact, you'll find that even your 400 grit Venev already leaves a great daily, very very sharp edge.

Stropping with paste is handy for quick edge maintenance to bring it back after some use, or for taking the edge to hair splitting and polished end result (if that is what you want from the edge).

For most of what knives are used for, you don't have to take the edge to that level. Doing it is fun and rewarding, but not the type of edge you really want for a daily use knife.

 

[cudgee]

I plan to start off on some cheap knives, I’m guessing that the 1200 stone is going to leave leave things plenty sharp as it is. That being said, is a strop even necessary in order to obtain a sharp edge?

The 1200 grit in these stones is not the same as 1200 grit in say an Edge Pro stone or a water stone, have a look at a grit comparison chart. If you already know this i apologise in advance. As 777 Edge says, the 400 grit which is about 700 grit equivalent will give you a really sharp working edge. Don't over complicate it, i have been for the last 50 years much to my chagrin..

 

[777 Edge]

The 1200 grit in these stones is not the same as 1200 grit in say an Edge Pro stone or a water stone, have a look at a grit comparison chart. If you already know this i apologise in advance. As 777 Edge says, the 400 grit which is about 700 grit equivalent will give you a really sharp working edge. Don't over complicate it, i have been for the last 50 years much to my chagrin..

Yep, I agree. For the first 15 years of my sharpening I didn't over complicate it, I just sharpened my knives. Then I started to overcomplicate things a lot for the next 15 years, and now I'm back to keeping it simple and sharp. Overcomplicating or overthinking it is still fun sometimes, but eventually you realize that simple works too.

 

[cudgee]

Overcomplicating or overthinking it is still fun sometimes,

It is, but jeez it's expensive.

 

[Revival29]

Ok so I got home assembled everything and clamped in a knife. Since I am still deciding about the Venev stones, I decided to use my KME diamonds.

The stone holder were driving me crazy. The stone kept popping out. Is there a trick or correct method to keep it locked in there? It seem self explanatory but just doesn’t seem to be designed to fit a flat end stone. I wasn’t using a lot of pressure either.

I was only on the first stone and it slid out out so many times that I just stopped completely. I can see how the edge pro stones would fit perfectly with the notches, but how do you secure any other type of stone?