Very impressed with the Ken Onion Work Sharp with Blade Grinder attachment

[Rey HRH]

One of the reasons I justified getting a whole set of DMT diamond stones and two high grit ceramic stones plus all the accouterments was that I can do the sharpening of the kitchen knives instead of sending them out and waiting for the free sharpening service that Shun has.

Back in October, I started with the first steak knife. I don't know how many hours it took me over so many days. My wife would drop hints that it certainly took a long time. She even mentioned it to some friends.

I decided to save my honor and get the Ken Onion Workshop along with the Blade Grinder attachment like this. Except true to my OCD form, I got everything else related like the bag and the grinder attachment.

I got the stuff today and after trying my hand with an old SAK and another knife, I went to work on the steak knives. I was impressed with the results. I did all six (redoing the first) in just 3 hours including the learning time. That's an average of 30 minutes per knife using 4 grits. That may still seem a lot but that included getting rid of the chips on each blade and re-profiling to a new bevel angle. The edge on each knife looked like it came fresh from the factory.

A nice surprise was how easy it was to see the burr forming and the small spots where the burr wasn't forming indicated where the chips were.

I highly recommend this set up even for new sharpeners just for all the time savings. Of course, I don't think I wouldn't have come up to speed as fast if I hadn't learned the basics from learning how to free-hand.

 

[Bobby3326]

The Ken onion work sharp with the blade grinding attachment is an awesome set up. I absolutely love mine, and recommend it to anyone. The work sharp itself is good, but has limitations which are eliminated with the blade grinding attachment. It also yields far better results.


Also for even better results save a well worn 12k grit belt, and go to local hardware store and pick up a block of Emory compound (or stropping compound). Start the machine and rub it on the belt. Works great after using the normal belts for fine polishing and honing.

 

[Rey HRH]

Did another 3 blades yesterday: ZT560, BM810, and ZT462CF.

One other benefit (for a relatively new free-hand sharpener like me) is that with the sharpie method and uniform rate available with the worksharp, isolated areas that need special attention are highlighted that may be glossed over in free-hand.

For example, both ZT's showed the edge couldn't be fully apexed on the right side near the choil because of material in the transition area. I remember seeing both when I was free-hand sharpening them, but I effectively just changed the angle in that area because the extra material was bumping up the angle I was holding it.

It gave me an opportunity to learn how to isolate working on an area using the belt. I learned you don't simply press down on that area near the belt edge because it makes a portion of the belt toward the center to rise up against the blade. I learned you have to make sure you separate the knife edge that you don't want to work on away from the belt and just hold the portion you want to work on against the belt. (I know it's probably simple stuff for most of you but, at least, now I know.

I'm just jazzed that these three knives now are fully apexed with uniform bevels across. I can slice cut with no drag and I can push cut easy even with the thick ZT560 blade at only 14 degrees edge angle. Although, I did check that with the worksharp set at 14 degrees, my cube check showed about 13.6 degrees. That could be a function of my bench. I'll check it later today.

 

[bgentry]

This all makes me want a BGA more and more. Must resist...

Brian.

 

[Bobby3326]

This all makes me want a BGA more and more. Must resist...

Brian.

Don't resist, give into the bga awesomeness...you'll get better edges and your knives will thank you lol... I like the fact you can adjust the amount of the convex by simply repositioning the lower pulley and adjusting tension.

 

[bgentry]

I'm getting darned good edges with the WSKO and no guides. But I think the BGA will give me more of a rigid surface, especially when using the platen. The big deal for me is that I would need to buy all of my belts again. I really like the Norax stiff belts. I guess, looking at the site, I'd only spend another $30 to $50 on belts but... Every time I do the math on this, I wonder if I shouldn't just buy a Viel or the other big name 1x42" belt sander and be done with it. OTOH, the 1x42 isn't exactly portable.

So I end up where I am now, lusting after the BGA and some belts, but thinking I shouldn't. Damnit.

Brian.

 

[Bobby3326]

I'm getting darned good edges with the WSKO and no guides. But I think the BGA will give me more of a rigid surface, especially when using the platen. The big deal for me is that I would need to buy all of my belts again. I really like the Norax stiff belts. I guess, looking at the site, I'd only spend another $30 to $50 on belts but... Every time I do the math on this, I wonder if I shouldn't just buy a Viel or the other big name 1x42" belt sander and be done with it. OTOH, the 1x42 isn't exactly portable.

So I end up where I am now, lusting after the BGA and some belts, but thinking I shouldn't. Damnit.

Brian.

If your intending on using the platten then you might be better off with a1 x30 or 42...The way the belt wraps the upper and lower pulley the belt rides about ¼"away until you get right by the 90° platform and applying force against it makes it get jumpy and bogs the motor down...I've experimented with it and had it set to full speed and have had the belt stop spinning from applying pressure against it.


It is good for squaring a knife spine thou.

 

[bgentry]

^ That's very good information about the platen. I'll definitely be considering that. Thank you!

Brian.

 

[Bobby3326]

Yea I couldn't figure out why they did that, I got it thinking I'd be able to quickly sharpen a mora using the platten. But if you try on the useable space above that platform the slack in the belt just ends up wrapping the blade creating a convex still.

You just have a small area right by the platform where the belt is close enough to not flex a lot, which is why it's good for creating a90° spine....

 

[cbwx34]

If your intending on using the platten then you might be better off with a1 x30 or 42...The way the belt wraps the upper and lower pulley the belt rides about ¼"away until you get right by the 90° platform and applying force against it makes it get jumpy and bogs the motor down...I've experimented with it and had it set to full speed and have had the belt stop spinning from applying pressure against it.


It is good for squaring a knife spine thou.

I wonder if yours is defective somehow... I measured mine this a.m. and there's only about 1/16" gap measured an inch above the 90 deg. platform, and the gap is consistent.

Where I see an issue is the bottom photo... the frame of the sharpener can get in the way, preventing reaching the heel of the blade on some knives... it can hit the handle or a thumbstud. Plus it's a cramped area, there's only 1 ½" of platen, so not much room to maneuver.

So in the end, if you're wanting to do a lot of work on a platen... the advice to look at another sander is good... the BGA isn't really designed with that in mind.

Depends on your definition, but the Viel is pretty easy to tote around, and you can set it up vertical or horizontal without modification. I think it's light years ahead of the HF sander... runs slower, smoother, and is more versatile to work with.

 

[Glock Guy]

You didn't ask, but I got to thinking: What would I buy if I knew all of this and was starting from scratch, and had the stock belts?

1 60 grit ceramic
1 80 grit ceramic (optional)
2 Stiff X200 Norax
2 Stiff X100 Norax
1 Stiff X65 Norax
1 Stiff X22 Norax
1 Stiff X5 Norax
1 6000 grit 1/2" belt (only because my original seemed to deform and begin wearing out after just a few uses. Optional.)

I might adjust the quantities differently if I was doing a different mix of blades. For my use, this would hold me for a good long time. Probably more than a year. ...and I'm saying that after having sharpened around 110 blades on my WSKO in about 8 months.

Brian.

Hey Brian,

I remember reading this post of yours (I think I've read pretty much everything on the KOWS lately!) a while back on belt selection.

Now that you've had some additional time and experience, would you still recommend these belts if you were starting from stratch?

*NOTE: I'm using the KOWS with the BGA, if that makes a difference in your advice.

Thanks!

 

[bgentry]

I haven't used or even seen in person, the BGA, so I can't speak with direct experience. I would think that it is very similar, but that's just a theory.

I can tell you that my recommendation is still very close to what it was. Let me break it down:

Ultra Coarse: 60 grit ceramic: I pretty much only use this when I need to hog off lots of metal. If someone brings me a filet knife with 1/16 - 1/8" deep chips in it, I need to grind the blade edge flat, removing all of the chips, then grind in brand new edge bevels. This is the belt I use for that kind of thing. If you don't have this need, you don't need this belt.

Coarse: 80 grit ceramic, x200 stiff Norax, x100 stiff Norax. The 80 grit and the 200 micron grind very similarly, but the x200 leaves a finer finish. I use the x200 on 75% of the blades I do. I almost never touch the 80 grit. Though it's a good belt. I use the x100 when a blade needs less work. I occasionally actually use the x100 as my last belt. This is for blades that need a very coarse "extra toothy" edge.

Medium: stiff Norax x65 and x22. I don't have an x65 stiff Norax, but I'd like to have one for the flexibility of stopping at a coarse, but not super coarse edge. I hear filet knives do really well with a finish like this. The x22 I use constantly; it's a very good stopping point for the average kitchen knife. Fine enough to seem fine in use, but toothy enough to "bite" food.

Fine: stiff Norax x5. I don't use this as much any more, but for a fine finish, this belt is just awesome. Not quite a mirror polish, but a very fine finish that will do S cuts in phonebook paper. Makes a pretty nice "show off" edge.

Extra fine: purple belt. I almost never use it, but it's fun to have.

So my recommendation is pretty much what it was, but you can pick and choose based on your uses and my above descriptions. I don't think they have a 60 grit belt for the BGA. I'd get an 80 grit just to have it for repairs and to see how it performed.

Brian.

 

[Rey HRH]

I see the back of these belts spliced together with some tape. How hard would it be to buy a belt that is longer than 18" and make several 18" long belts out of that? Assuming the grit and type of belt isn't available in 1 x 18" size. What kind of tape would be used? So far, I've only seen one site that offers 1 x 18 belts in Aluminum Oxide in different grit progressions. I guess I can do with that when it comes time to get new belts.

I think the belts supplied with the BGA is pretty for grit progression. Their descriptions also help the novice: Repair, Shape, Sharpen, Hone, Strop. I did buy the stropping kit though that comes with two belts to be loaded with green and red compound. I'll see how that compares.

 

[Glock Guy]

I haven't used or even seen in person, the BGA, so I can't speak with direct experience. I would think that it is very similar, but that's just a theory.

I can tell you that my recommendation is still very close to what it was. Let me break it down:

Ultra Coarse: 60 grit ceramic: I pretty much only use this when I need to hog off lots of metal. If someone brings me a filet knife with 1/16 - 1/8" deep chips in it, I need to grind the blade edge flat, removing all of the chips, then grind in brand new edge bevels. This is the belt I use for that kind of thing. If you don't have this need, you don't need this belt.

Coarse: 80 grit ceramic, x200 stiff Norax, x100 stiff Norax. The 80 grit and the 200 micron grind very similarly, but the x200 leaves a finer finish. I use the x200 on 75% of the blades I do. I almost never touch the 80 grit. Though it's a good belt. I use the x100 when a blade needs less work. I occasionally actually use the x100 as my last belt. This is for blades that need a very coarse "extra toothy" edge.

Medium: stiff Norax x65 and x22. I don't have an x65 stiff Norax, but I'd like to have one for the flexibility of stopping at a coarse, but not super coarse edge. I hear filet knives do really well with a finish like this. The x22 I use constantly; it's a very good stopping point for the average kitchen knife. Fine enough to seem fine in use, but toothy enough to "bite" food.

Fine: stiff Norax x5. I don't use this as much any more, but for a fine finish, this belt is just awesome. Not quite a mirror polish, but a very fine finish that will do S cuts in phonebook paper. Makes a pretty nice "show off" edge.

Extra fine: purple belt. I almost never use it, but it's fun to have.

So my recommendation is pretty much what it was, but you can pick and choose based on your uses and my above descriptions. I don't think they have a 60 grit belt for the BGA. I'd get an 80 grit just to have it for repairs and to see how it performed.

Brian.

Thanks again for your help Brian!

I had a few of these (and other) belts already, but picked up the others. I even got 2 of some belts. My stuff should be here next week!

 

[cbwx34]

I see the back of these belts spliced together with some tape. How hard would it be to buy a belt that is longer than 18" and make several 18" long belts out of that? Assuming the grit and type of belt isn't available in 1 x 18" size. What kind of tape would be used? So far, I've only seen one site that offers 1 x 18 belts in Aluminum Oxide in different grit progressions. I guess I can do with that when it comes time to get new belts.

I've tried...never found a tape that would hold very long. In doing some research, I found this post in another forum...

I wanted to make my own belts a couple of years ago. I called 3M and they said they would not sell belt splicing supplies to an individual and if they would, the individual couldn't make belts that would stay together. They ship the adhesive/tape packed in dry ice and the receiving company immediately puts it into a freezer until just before it is ready to go on the belt making machine. They use a combination of heat and pressure to properly bond the belts together

... so maybe that's why. I could sometimes get a strong packing tape to hold for a short time, long enough to get through a job... but not very reliable.

If you find something, let us know!

Edit to add:

p.s. There are several places you can get belts... search for: Klingspor, Econoway, MicroMesh, SuperGrit, TruGrit (some you have to call or email, but have no problem making 1x18 belts).

(I was going to do some comparison testing but never got around to it... but all are fairly decent).

 

[AFAustin]

cbwx30, I like your "belt trays"---where did you find them?

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[Bobby3326]

I saw one guy make belts out of sand paper for a 1x30 he used the fibrous packing tape from the post office and it held up throughout the video.

 

[cbwx34]

cbwx30, I like your "belt trays"---where did you find them?

Thanks,

Andrew

Probably amazon... It's a Plano 3744 utility (or tackle) box.

I saw one guy make belts out of sand paper for a 1x30 he used the fibrous packing tape from the post office and it held up trout throughout the video.

I probably saw that video... Give it a whirl, if you can get it to work, I'd like to know how so I can do it,,, I have some belts I'd like to convert. I could get some to hold for a while, but would fail after a short while... rarely lasting longer than a knife or two.

 

[AFAustin]

Probably amazon... It's a Plano 3744 utility (or tackle) box.

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[Bobby3326]

I wonder if yours is defective somehow... I measured mine this a.m. and there's only about 1/16" gap measured an inch above the 90 deg. platform, and the gap is consistent.

Where I see an issue is the bottom photo... the frame of the sharpener can get in the way, preventing reaching the heel of the blade on some knives... it can hit the handle or a thumbstud. Plus it's a cramped area, there's only 1 ½" of platen, so not much room to maneuver.

So in the end, if you're wanting to do a lot of work on a platen... the advice to look at another sander is good... the BGA isn't really designed with that in mind.

Depends on your definition, but the Viel is pretty easy to tote around, and you can set it up vertical or horizontal without modification. I think it's light years ahead of the HF sander... runs slower, smoother, and is more versatile to work with.

That could be possible or I just have an early version...either way thou for actually using it to sharpen I wouldn't recommend it if that's the main thing you plan on using. Plus it really chews the belts up since they're so short compared to a real belt grinder...The one time I did try to quickly set a new bevel using it I ended up breaking a belt. Having never used a real grinder I kinda want one now for just the use of the platten, having that backing will quickly set a bevel compared to a slack belt, but it's also removing steel x3 as fast so more room for error.