Vest/Knife Question for Mick and Duane
- Thread starter SSN664
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Speaking only for myself, I believe the Patrol vest that SOE makes is an excellent platform. I am not a CQB expert and this is a good topic, if Pat Rogers has his ears on, a word from him would be great here as well as Micks. Also, though he may not be subtle, Vince Palucci is another wjo has been through every modern course offered on this topic as well as having carried this system in combat. A word from Vince would be great also.
I'm so old, my loadout is still made of canvas M14 pouches!
Duane
I'm so old, my loadout is still made of canvas M14 pouches!
Duane
Thanks, Duane. I, too, have a set of OD cotton duck 782 gear and my green utility cover. From a life long ago in a galaxy far, far away...
Mick posted something on the SOE forum on www.tacicalforums.com; however, it was before the cut-off date for archiving. I had it saved; however, that was two hard drives ago.
Mick posted something on the SOE forum on www.tacicalforums.com; however, it was before the cut-off date for archiving. I had it saved; however, that was two hard drives ago.
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SSN664
Force uses the FSBE vest due to the amphibious nature of it's work.
I carry a DB on the holster shrouud of my 6004. It is easily reachable and secure.
I carry a GB in mt assault suit pocket.
Hope this helps!
Force uses the FSBE vest due to the amphibious nature of it's work.
I carry a DB on the holster shrouud of my 6004. It is easily reachable and secure.
I carry a GB in mt assault suit pocket.
Hope this helps!
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SSN664,
any answer I give here must first be screened by John Hollister to sort out what is hearsay and what is the truth, because he knows everything. So I'll schedule a post around his time line so you can get a nice color coded post with nothing but the truth according to John.
Vinnie
any answer I give here must first be screened by John Hollister to sort out what is hearsay and what is the truth, because he knows everything. So I'll schedule a post around his time line so you can get a nice color coded post with nothing but the truth according to John.
Vinnie
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Vinnie, YOU ROCK!
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I too am also curious how guys in the field carry their Striders. I have a Blackhawk Omega vest, and have been wondering how I'm going to rig it up when I get back from K-9 school (where I'm currently at).
Phil the SP
Phil the SP
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Phil,
The vest is not a place to carry a knfe. In the field, the knife belongs with your Line 1 equipment. It normally rides on your trouser belt.
Even if you have to ditch everything your vest, war belt etc, you will still have your knife and E&E kit with you.
The vest is not a place to carry a knfe. In the field, the knife belongs with your Line 1 equipment. It normally rides on your trouser belt.
Even if you have to ditch everything your vest, war belt etc, you will still have your knife and E&E kit with you.
KnifeBomber
BANNED
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Pat,
Excellent advise from one that has learned the lessons that everyone should know, but might have not had the experience to learn firsthand. Thanks for taking the time to share the knowledge. One of these days, I hope to meet you. Then you might have to teach me to shoot like a Marine.
Vinnie,
Let us know what you think. John is really a good guy, but he is as protective of his friends at Emerson as you are of the Strider bunch. Don't let his loyalty to them jade your opinion. What vest rig do you suggest? I wear a modified SOE Force vest with a DB up on the left shoulder as my backup. I now carry a Simonich Mid-Tech Raven on the 1st line belt with my holster. Other Striders are positioned elsewhere on my person to allow access in the event I am crushed into the beer can (helo) persay and can't move one limb or the other.
Excellent advise from one that has learned the lessons that everyone should know, but might have not had the experience to learn firsthand. Thanks for taking the time to share the knowledge. One of these days, I hope to meet you. Then you might have to teach me to shoot like a Marine.
Vinnie,
Let us know what you think. John is really a good guy, but he is as protective of his friends at Emerson as you are of the Strider bunch. Don't let his loyalty to them jade your opinion. What vest rig do you suggest? I wear a modified SOE Force vest with a DB up on the left shoulder as my backup. I now carry a Simonich Mid-Tech Raven on the 1st line belt with my holster. Other Striders are positioned elsewhere on my person to allow access in the event I am crushed into the beer can (helo) persay and can't move one limb or the other.
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LMFAO!!
I'd ask you to tell me what your buddy has to say about it, but that'd be fanning flames.
Honestly Vinnie, I'd benifit from your experience as much as everyone else here with regard to this issue.
I'll just not sit back while you slander someone else. If that's a bad thing, I'm a bad man. Sorry.
Hey Vinnie!
You don't know me, but I have read alot of your posts and always found them to be no BS good info stuff. I for one would like your opinion on this topic. I have been a civilian cop for 8 years and have 10 years military time (combined between active duty and national guard.) I know that warriors tend to have very strong opinions. Our commintment to what we believe in is an essential part of our character. John Hollister is a good man. From what I have read of you, you are also a good man. This whole thing is ridiculous. Please let it drop. I have the utmost respect for the Strider guys and the Emerson crew. I just don't think this controversy is doing anyone any good.
Now, please enlighten us on the original question.
Thanks,
Lewis Christopher
You don't know me, but I have read alot of your posts and always found them to be no BS good info stuff. I for one would like your opinion on this topic. I have been a civilian cop for 8 years and have 10 years military time (combined between active duty and national guard.) I know that warriors tend to have very strong opinions. Our commintment to what we believe in is an essential part of our character. John Hollister is a good man. From what I have read of you, you are also a good man. This whole thing is ridiculous. Please let it drop. I have the utmost respect for the Strider guys and the Emerson crew. I just don't think this controversy is doing anyone any good.
Now, please enlighten us on the original question.
Thanks,
Lewis Christopher
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Pat,
Thanks for the info. I hate to be a pain in the butt, but I've read about the different Lines before - can you explain that a bit?
Although I don't really understand what's going on with this whole Emerson vs Strider thing (and I understand that Mick & Ernie are pals, referring to individuals here), but I agree with Lewis - can we please drop this and let by-gones be by-gones? Inquireing minds are being devoid of valuable information!
Phil the SP
Thanks for the info. I hate to be a pain in the butt, but I've read about the different Lines before - can you explain that a bit?
Although I don't really understand what's going on with this whole Emerson vs Strider thing (and I understand that Mick & Ernie are pals, referring to individuals here), but I agree with Lewis - can we please drop this and let by-gones be by-gones? Inquireing minds are being devoid of valuable information!
Phil the SP
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1) it depends on what you are doing. 2) what type enviorment you are in. 3) And what type of terrain.
Like Pat said we use the FSBE now because most of our insert platforms take us over water. The FSBE is designed with a quick release so in the event you get thrown in the water there is one handle to pull and the vest comes completely off in two parts. It has MOLLIE type attaching points and can be set up a million differen't ways.
The last time I went through Pat Rogers course I wore a level four vest with a removeable shell that held pouches with snaps and velcro. At the time this was what we had. The snaps and velcro were never a good thing so I got with SOE and gave them the specs on what I wanted. And from that the Force vest was born. I used that vest for my next work up and wore it over a level 4 body armor. We (Marines) tend to have to carry more ammo than the LEO's so our wearing of gear reflects that greatly. I loved the Force vest because it was built for me the way I wanted it. I still use it.
In a non CQB enviornment I use the SOE patrol vest. I have one of the orignal vest so it doesn't have some of the features the new ones do, but it still holds 12 Mags and has 12 points of adjust so fitting it over just about anything is possible. I both jumped and dove with the vest, and can't say enough about its durability.
As far as knives go. I don't wear anything on my LBE. It gets in the way of my other gear, and like Pat said if the LBE goes I still want a knife. In a CQB scenerio I carry a EB-T on mt pistol belt and always have a folder on my body, and because Strider folders are just as big a fixed blades once open that is all I carry. On the patroling side I carry an HT on my leg from my riggers belt. I also have a folder in my survival kit. Hope this helped.
John you can edit this at your convience you might want to correct my spelling as well because I spell like a 10 year old.
Vinnie
Like Pat said we use the FSBE now because most of our insert platforms take us over water. The FSBE is designed with a quick release so in the event you get thrown in the water there is one handle to pull and the vest comes completely off in two parts. It has MOLLIE type attaching points and can be set up a million differen't ways.
The last time I went through Pat Rogers course I wore a level four vest with a removeable shell that held pouches with snaps and velcro. At the time this was what we had. The snaps and velcro were never a good thing so I got with SOE and gave them the specs on what I wanted. And from that the Force vest was born. I used that vest for my next work up and wore it over a level 4 body armor. We (Marines) tend to have to carry more ammo than the LEO's so our wearing of gear reflects that greatly. I loved the Force vest because it was built for me the way I wanted it. I still use it.
In a non CQB enviornment I use the SOE patrol vest. I have one of the orignal vest so it doesn't have some of the features the new ones do, but it still holds 12 Mags and has 12 points of adjust so fitting it over just about anything is possible. I both jumped and dove with the vest, and can't say enough about its durability.
As far as knives go. I don't wear anything on my LBE. It gets in the way of my other gear, and like Pat said if the LBE goes I still want a knife. In a CQB scenerio I carry a EB-T on mt pistol belt and always have a folder on my body, and because Strider folders are just as big a fixed blades once open that is all I carry. On the patroling side I carry an HT on my leg from my riggers belt. I also have a folder in my survival kit. Hope this helped.
John you can edit this at your convience you might want to correct my spelling as well because I spell like a 10 year old.
Vinnie
Always eager to learn.
Vinnie
Sorry you feel the need to piss in a good thread started by someone else.. I suggest you take any personal issues you may have to "Whine & Cheese"
I'm sure you have valuable information to share from your personal expierences, don't spoilt it by whining about other issues.
John's a good man.
KnifeBomber
Well put! A lot of guys that are protective of Emerson are just as protective of Strider. Show me a Emerson supporter and I'll show you a Strider GB on their belt/pocket
Hilton
____________
Vinnie
Sorry you feel the need to piss in a good thread started by someone else.. I suggest you take any personal issues you may have to "Whine & Cheese"
I'm sure you have valuable information to share from your personal expierences, don't spoilt it by whining about other issues.
John's a good man.
KnifeBomber
Well put! A lot of guys that are protective of Emerson are just as protective of Strider. Show me a Emerson supporter and I'll show you a Strider GB on their belt/pocket
Hilton
____________
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Hey Hilton,
Mind your Fu$king Business. You have no idea of what is going on between me and John. If you had any sense you would see the sarcasim and humor in my post as well as his reply. So I suggest you stay out of other peoples business unless you know what's going on. And you don't know what's going on. You have anything else to say to me e-mail. RS8541@worldnet.att.net untill than I'd suggest staying out of other peoples business.
Always eager tto let you know how it is.
Vinnie
Mind your Fu$king Business. You have no idea of what is going on between me and John. If you had any sense you would see the sarcasim and humor in my post as well as his reply. So I suggest you stay out of other peoples business unless you know what's going on. And you don't know what's going on. You have anything else to say to me e-mail. RS8541@worldnet.att.net untill than I'd suggest staying out of other peoples business.
Always eager tto let you know how it is.
Vinnie
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Vinnie, good information.
My needs are different then yours, but as I work around water alot, you did get me thinking.
Currently I use an OD Tactical Tailor Balistic Panel carrier with six double AR pouches across the front, a Hydration Bladder on the back and a small Med pouch. I don't carry a knife on the vest, but usually have two folders and a Multitool on me at work.
Thanks for the support guys, hopefully Vinnie and I have worked it out in private. He said his piece in public, I said mine. I stand 100% behind mine and I'm sure he does his.
How true. I have both an AR and a GB that see carry.
My needs are different then yours, but as I work around water alot, you did get me thinking.
Currently I use an OD Tactical Tailor Balistic Panel carrier with six double AR pouches across the front, a Hydration Bladder on the back and a small Med pouch. I don't carry a knife on the vest, but usually have two folders and a Multitool on me at work.
Thanks for the support guys, hopefully Vinnie and I have worked it out in private. He said his piece in public, I said mine. I stand 100% behind mine and I'm sure he does his.
How true. I have both an AR and a GB that see carry.
Thanks gor getting back on track, guys! Great Thread!
Pat-I have read (and reread) your SWAT article on FSBE. Your guys (and the rest of the Corps) needs it before it should be available to the public, IMHO. Is the belt with holster, O2 cylinder, and magazine leg panel attached to the vest portion (2nd line) or separate (1st line)? Are you the good looking shooter pictured with the M4 and DB on the holster shrouud of his 6004?
Vinnie (and other SOE users)-Have you ever tried running a Force Vest panel on the off side and a Patrol Vest panel on the strong side giving you 10 magazines so you don't have to change vests between greeside (Patrol Vest/12 mags) and blackside (Force Vest/6 mags)? How about a dump pouch aft of the Force Vest subloads?
Great Thread!Pat-I have read (and reread) your SWAT article on FSBE. Your guys (and the rest of the Corps) needs it before it should be available to the public, IMHO. Is the belt with holster, O2 cylinder, and magazine leg panel attached to the vest portion (2nd line) or separate (1st line)? Are you the good looking shooter pictured with the M4 and DB on the holster shrouud of his 6004?
Vinnie (and other SOE users)-Have you ever tried running a Force Vest panel on the off side and a Patrol Vest panel on the strong side giving you 10 magazines so you don't have to change vests between greeside (Patrol Vest/12 mags) and blackside (Force Vest/6 mags)? How about a dump pouch aft of the Force Vest subloads?
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SSN664
The vest is a seperate entity. It is made to be detachable in the event that one of the very old 46's is flown into the side of the ship- again.
The belt is not attached to the vest, as that would defeat the purpose. The belt will normally have on it (OK, i may not be normal)the HABD bottle, pistol holster (how many of the 7 mags on the belt is up to you. I'm short waisted, consequently i keep two there and the rest on the FSBE), a utility tool, DB, and a leg panel. I keep two M4 mags and 2 .45 mags there. The pouch is the Eagle one, PR style, with the .45 pouches piggybacked. I also wear a dump pouch.
The SRU-40/P Recon version PFD is worn with the harness under the FSBE but the collar over it.
Yes
Right now you can only do VBSS with the FSBE. The Trailers land without any armor at all due to the fact that the Grunts have only the Interceptor Armor, and it cannot be ditched.
Ergo, all blackside is done with the FSBE, period. No other vests are permitted (at least on the left coast). The guys back from the big nothing wore the FSBE for most green side and interdiction missions.
The loadout is 13 M4 mags, green or black.
When Vinnie last went through, we had the POS green monsters, which were total junk. Therefore a lot- most- of the guys had some other type of LBV for greenside stuff.
The search for the ultimate gear suite never ends...
The vest is a seperate entity. It is made to be detachable in the event that one of the very old 46's is flown into the side of the ship- again.
The belt is not attached to the vest, as that would defeat the purpose. The belt will normally have on it (OK, i may not be normal)the HABD bottle, pistol holster (how many of the 7 mags on the belt is up to you. I'm short waisted, consequently i keep two there and the rest on the FSBE), a utility tool, DB, and a leg panel. I keep two M4 mags and 2 .45 mags there. The pouch is the Eagle one, PR style, with the .45 pouches piggybacked. I also wear a dump pouch.
The SRU-40/P Recon version PFD is worn with the harness under the FSBE but the collar over it.
Yes
Right now you can only do VBSS with the FSBE. The Trailers land without any armor at all due to the fact that the Grunts have only the Interceptor Armor, and it cannot be ditched.
Ergo, all blackside is done with the FSBE, period. No other vests are permitted (at least on the left coast). The guys back from the big nothing wore the FSBE for most green side and interdiction missions.
The loadout is 13 M4 mags, green or black.
When Vinnie last went through, we had the POS green monsters, which were total junk. Therefore a lot- most- of the guys had some other type of LBV for greenside stuff.
The search for the ultimate gear suite never ends...