VG1 vs VG10

Indiana Joe

Indiana Joe

Joined
Sep 28, 2007
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I really liked the discussion on the VG10 vs 1095 thread and I learned a lot, but it got me to thinking about VG1 steel. I looked at the comparison chart at zknives (as suggested) but feel like I need more clarification between these two stainless steels.

The VG1 has a lot less molybdenum, no vanadium, no manganese, and no cobalt. Yet it has nickel--whereas VG10 does not have nickel.

So, how do I interpret the lack of certain elements in VG1 as well as the additional nickel that VG10 lacks?
 
Lack of vanadium and molybdenum make VG-1 less wear resistant.Nickel is not a carbide former and typically adds toughness to the steel. Remember that there are a number of considerations in designing a steel .Original use [many steels that are used in knives originally had other uses] , cost ,properties are the major things.
 
So VG-10 is more wear resistant than VG-1? What about the company making the blade (heat treatment applied) varying from one brand to another?
 
The amount of Vanadium in VG10 (0.2%) is not enough to affect the wear resistance. It is there to produce a finer grain structure.

Moly (1% in VG10 vs. 0.3% in VG1)does form carbides and it increases the corrosion resistance. I do not know the effect of the difference between the amounts in these two alloys.

Cobalt is said to increase alloy strength.

Nickel toughens an alloy

But both are 1% Carbon ~15% Chromium alloys.

I find VG10 to be a fine grained alloy that holds an edge as well as any non-PM steel. It holds an edge better than 440C and maybe better than 154CM (though I cannot really tell the difference between the two in edge retention testing.)

I have not tried VG1, but would expect it to hold an edge better than 440C and maybe not be as fine grained as VG10. This assumes the alloys are hardened to the same hardness.
 
The amount of Vanadium in VG10 (0.2%) is not enough to affect the wear resistance. It is there to produce a finer grain structure.

Moly (1% in VG10 vs. 0.3% in VG1)does form carbides and it increases the corrosion resistance. I do not know the effect of the difference between the amounts in these two alloys.

Cobalt is said to increase alloy strength.

Nickel toughens an alloy

But both are 1% Carbon ~15% Chromium alloys.

I find VG10 to be a fine grained alloy that holds an edge as well as any non-PM steel. It holds an edge better than 440C and maybe better than 154CM (though I cannot really tell the difference between the two in edge retention testing.)

I have not tried VG1, but would expect it to hold an edge better than 440C and maybe not be as fine grained as VG10. This assumes the alloys are hardened to the same hardness.
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Thanks for the info knarfeng :)
 
Good information. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with VG1...I think it's the bladesteel that Cold Steel offers on it's higher-cost knives.
 
cold steel offers vg1 on some kitchen knives of which i have. the stuff takes a good edge & holds it pretty well. i have'nt tested it for durability since i'm lazier than i was 10 yrs. back.i do beleive the 1.0 cobalt is probably the most important difference between the 2 steels.
 
VG-1 is a much better steel than people give it credit for, it's tough and holds an edge for a very long time, it is really a premium steel.

It's also easier to sharpen than VG-10 and S30V, but I found it holds an edge longer than S30V from what I have seen especially on cardboard.

I don't have any VG-10 blades anymore to do an updated comparison.
 
Ankerson said:
VG-1 is a much better steel than people give it credit for, it's tough and holds an edge for a very long time, it is really a premium steel.

It's also easier to sharpen than VG-10 and S30V, but I found it holds an edge longer than S30V from what I have seen especially on cardboard.

I don't have any VG-10 blades anymore to do an updated comparison.
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Huh??

VG-1 chips if you try to make wood shavings with moderately (not very) hard wood.
Also, I find my VG-1 CS knives not to hold an edge better than SOG's AUS-8, which doesn't hold an edge nearly as good as VG-10 or especially S30V.

For data point, I'm comparing Spyderco's VG-10 to Cold Steel's VG-1 and I've got plenty of knives in these steels. Got lotsa S30V knives from various manufacturers as well.

But anyway, geometry and HT matter a lot also. Steel alone doesn't matter that much. I used to be a steel snob, but quickly realized that each steel offers something special, whether it's edge retention, toughness, corrosion resistance or just a great price.
 
Razorsharp1986 said:
Huh??

VG-1 chips if you try to make wood shavings with moderately (not very) hard wood.
Also, I find my VG-1 CS knives not to hold an edge better than SOG's AUS-8, which doesn't hold an edge nearly as good as VG-10 or especially S30V.

For data point, I'm comparing Spyderco's VG-10 to Cold Steel's VG-1 and I've got plenty of knives in these steels. Got lotsa S30V knives from various manufacturers as well.

But anyway, geometry and HT matter a lot also. Steel alone doesn't matter that much. I used to be a steel snob, but quickly realized that each steel offers something special, whether it's edge retention, toughness, corrosion resistance or just a great price.
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Never had it chip on me and it does hold an edge just as long or longer than S30V from my experience. ;)
 
Cold Steel Voyagers have VG-1 and it's some sharp stuff, holds an edge - excellent steel through their suppliers. :)
 
i find this discussion intriguing & hope someone will do a test. the biggest problem is going to be finding 2 knives in the different alloys with blade stock & bevels similar. spyderco makes a lot of vg10 but i have,nt checked the cold steel offerings. ankerson is a very experienced user so we cannot just write off his opinion as perferance.i have a cold steel wholesaler 1.5 miles from me so perhaps i can select a knife to cut against one of my 5 spydies in vg10. then i'll have to go to forum to see whom will cut. maybe another member will pick up the gauntlet 1st.
 
DennisStrickland said:
i find this discussion intriguing & hope someone will do a test. the biggest problem is going to be finding 2 knives in the different alloys with blade stock & bevels similar. spyderco makes a lot of vg10 but i have,nt checked the cold steel offerings. ankerson is a very experienced user so we cannot just write off his opinion as perferance.i have a cold steel wholesaler 1.5 miles from me so perhaps i can select a knife to cut against one of my 5 spydies in vg10. then i'll have to go to forum to see whom will cut. maybe another member will pick up the gauntlet 1st.
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You could pickup an old Style VG-1 Voyager really cheap right now that would compare to the VG-10 Spydercos.

My Voyager is my main Cardboard blade and it holds an edge forever compared to just about everything else I have tried.

It goes through cardboard like a razor knife.



 
I am no expert on this so I wont even try to add to the what is better at what conversation, but since it would be hard to find the same blade profile and geometry in each steel a direct comparison is impossible and we will only ever have generalizations. I think that some day I may just make 3 or 4 knives identical, but with different steels just to put things to the test on the edge holding front. I am not sure that even that would be the end all test simply because each steel also has a designed purpose.
If I were to ever do this it would be a very simple knife design that was easy to be reproduced, same level of finish and a simple if any handle. What would be the criteria of the test though?
 
at this stage of my life i prefer to buy & send knives to experienced formites to be tested.i have done this in past & was very pleased with the efforts & reports posted in the forum. i did my own tests for 35 years [some as recent as last fall] however it is tedious & my efforts now are to improve my photography. so i will follow up on this & see if we can have a decent report within the month. i'm very curious myself & can furnish the knives w/o any problem.at this time i have 2 or 3 friends that when willing give very respected tests.
 
Hi'Y'all,
I have a older Trailmaster around 1980 instead of a flat choil, it has a nipple or notch, and I have a Fallkniven NL 3 Njord, both keep a good edge, least I can't tell which hold's it better, but one thing I do notice, and I tested the two blade's is that in extreme cold, the VG10 chilp's a little more than the VG1, and I think the VG10 does hold a edge a little longer. the reason I come up with is this, the VG10 is a harder steel?
 
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Your Voyager looks alot like my Vaquero, the handle shape are a little different, but the steel are the same VG1 but not the San Mai it's just straight VG1 instead of lamented, my Vaquero is a serrated edge and scary sharp, I bought it as a close out through C.S. for $39.00, a great EDC, regardless what I cut with it, it never failed me yet, although I carry it, but I don't over do it, and it's as sharp as the day I got it, and I carry it everyday
 
knarfeng said:
The amount of Vanadium in VG10 (0.2%) is not enough to affect the wear resistance. It is there to produce a finer grain structure.

Moly (1% in VG10 vs. 0.3% in VG1)does form carbides and it increases the corrosion resistance. I do not know the effect of the difference between the amounts in these two alloys.

Cobalt is said to increase alloy strength.

Nickel toughens an alloy

But both are 1% Carbon ~15% Chromium alloys.

I find VG10 to be a fine grained alloy that holds an edge as well as any non-PM steel. It holds an edge better than 440C and maybe better than 154CM (though I cannot really tell the difference between the two in edge retention testing.)

I have not tried VG1, but would expect it to hold an edge better than 440C and maybe not be as fine grained as VG10. This assumes the alloys are hardened to the same hardness.
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In the two years since I wrote that I have had the opportunity to test VG1 and compare the edge retention directly to to that of VG10. Both blades were hardened to a 59HRC and I found them to have equivalent edge retentions.

If someone is reporting that VG1 chips more easily than VG10 at the same hardness, I can believe that. The small amount of Vanadium in VG10 is there as a grain refiner. That would give VG10 greater toughness at the same hardness.
 
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