VG10 sharpening problem

C

crafty

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Jan 15, 2010
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For some reason I can't get my VG10 blades shaving sharp, while I can get other steels (S30V, 1075, 1095, AUS8, 12C27, D2) shaving sharp. I do get a decent edge on my VG10 but they don't shave.

I'm curious which methods works best for you to get VG10 shaving sharp.
(if interested you can read my full description in the next post :D )
 
For some reason I can't get my VG10 blades shaving sharp, while I can get other steels (S30V, 1075, 1095, AUS8, 12C27, D2) shaving sharp. I do get a decent edge on my VG10 but they don't shave. I went through the forums and checked for some sharpening and stropping methods described to criticize my own method, but I don't really see what I'm doing wrong (especially because I can get my other blades to shave). Sorry for bothering, I know it's a much discussed topic, but I can't find what I’m doing wrong.

It concerns the following 2 knives:
- Spyderco Delica 4
- Fallkniven WM1

Sharpening options:
-Japanese water stones (400, 1000, 2000 and 5000)
-Fallkniven DC4
-Ceramic steel
-Fiskars ceramic sharpening wheel
-Kyocera diamond sharpener
-Leather strop with polishing compound

So different options, but my 2 main sharpening methods are:
-At home I use my Japanese water stones. Depending on how dull/abused the knife is I choose my first stone and finally finish with my 5000 grit. After that I switch to stropping on leather with some polishing compound.
-In the field I use my DC4 and if I feel like it I take my leather belt from my pants for stropping it a few times.

Although I really like my water stones (especially for my scandi grind knives), I’m also thinking to get a Spyderco sharpmaker or Lansky sharpening system or a Gatco sharpening system. This might be a bit easier for my double bevel knives.

The blades have a different bevel off course (double bevel and convex). So when I started sharpening my convex (WM1) and didn't get it shaving I doubted about my method (I didn’t use the sandpaper-mouse pad method. Only wanted to touch it up a little to get it shaving again. When I need to work a bit more on the knife in future I will switch to the mouse pad technique). Then picked the knife with the double bevel (Delica 4) for reference, but couldn't get it shaving either. Took another knife (also double bevel, but different steel) and practiced with that one. Had it shaving in no time, so went back to my VG10 blades, but still no satisfying result.

I only wanted to touch up both knives a little so I started with just stropping on leather and see the result. Noticed it was not shaving, so took my 5000 grit stone followed by stropping. Still not shaving, Then started with my 2000 grit stone etc, but without success. Then got a little annoyed and tried my other sharpening options as well. I do get a decent edge, but can’t get it to shave. After stropping the edge it looks nicely polished.

Do I need it to shave, well not necessarily, but if you want to cut eg. tomatoes it helps ;) It’s more the case of being a perfectionist and trying to optimize my sharpening method. As I’m able to get my other blades shaving sharp I also want to be able to get this result for my VG10 blades ;)

I can think of some typical things that might go wrong in my method off course (although I don't get it yet why I do get my other blades to shave then). But I'm curious which methods works best for you to get VG10 shaving sharp. And if you have any idea what might go wrong for me I'm happy to hear as well.

oh and sorry for the long story ;)
 
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I have great luck with the sharp maker on most of my knives. VG10 hasn't been a problem for me using it. Used to freehand, and still do when in the field, but use the sharpmaker, and edgepro at home.
 
Sticking with the current setup is a better bet than buying new stuff.

VG10 is quite grindable so I have no doubt you are raising a burr on your edge. Check that it is consistently removed before changing grits, and if you are not, in fact, raising a burr, then raise one.

Check that your edge is not rounded. Freehand sharpening can sometimes have this problem, I doubt this is the case though.

When you form and then remove a burr, the edge should be able to shave at most any grit. Step up grits properly and you should get a nice edge.
 
Wow, VG10 is usually a pleasure to sharpen. I'm getting the popcorn and seeing how this thread plays out.
 
Since I got a bit desperate and tried different methods :rolleyes: I thought maybe I should start all over with my standard sharpening method before I take the pictures (since that's my preferred method and the one I want to improve ;) ) So I started from the 400 grit stone up to the 5000 grit and finished with my leather strop.

Did a couple with my standard camera and a couple with a microscope at work ;) With the microscope I took some pictures at the base of the blade and at the tip. Pictures if both knives are in albums below;

Spyderco Delica 4:
http://img690.imageshack.us/g/spyda3r.jpg/


Fallkniven WM1:
http://img693.imageshack.us/g/wma2.jpg/

*for the WM1 I noticed already that I didn't keep my angle steady towards the tip (picture WM09 and WM10 are made from the tip of the knife) :o
 
Those edges look mirror like to the naked eye view and then under magnification - like they'd have a lot of bite too. Just my $.02 :)
 
spyd13.png


The bright line running down the apex of the edge is what we like to call a burr, look to the link in my sig for detailed info.

Using feather light pressure when finishing your edge will help to reduce or even remove the burr completely. Stropping with a higher/coarser grit compound will also remove it.


wm06.png


This picture of your fallkniven tells the other side of the story, See the deep "pit's" in the edge? and random but overly large scratches?

The pitting or roughness to the edge is because it is not brought together, you got close but missed it by less than a hair. You are also jumping to the next grit too fast and basically sharpening the sides while you miss the apex. You can also see the burr in later photos and you will notice its much larger than your delica and more folded to one side.

The delica actually looks pretty good and if you strop or maybe work your finishing stone with lighter pressure it may be just enough to remove the burr and it will then become sharp. The fallkniven will need to go back to at least 1k and be worked through the stones again.

Getting a burr free and very sharp edge does not require a strop and can be done on just your stones, its all about that pressure.....


Below is a enlarged pic of my avatar, Its a ZDP stretch finished by hand on a DMT EEF 8000 mesh stone. It is completely burr free and sharp enough to split the hair that is sitting in front of it.

PIC098.jpg
 
I can not tell in the first picture that knifenut reposted for you if that is a burr, or if you simply have not reached the edge yet. In your sharpening efforts, do you raise a burr on the coarsest grit you are sharpening with and try to remove it before moving to the next step? Do you ever color the edge before you start your sharpening effort to give yourself that visual cue that you are getting all the way to the edge? Also, what polishing compound are you using on your strop? Just curious.

I believe you have enough equipment to get VG10 sharp. I achieve very good results with the Spyderco Sharpmaker, but again I believe you have enough gear to get the job done right.
 
It takes a bit of work to get the burr off VG-10. I use DMT diamond hones, which work well for me. VG-10 seems to have a 'bite' similar to S30V and D2 (which I also find hard to work the burr off) -- maybe the carbide size is similar in these steels.
 
Thanks for the input! That's some useful tips.
I will give it a try again asap. With the Delica I'll try to get rid of my burr on my fine stone. And I'll do my best on not applying to much pressure ;)
For the fallkniven I start from the 1000 grit again and I'll spend a bit longer on each stone.

@Chapman
I do raise a burr on my course stone, but maybe I'm a bit too impatient moving to quick to the next stone and thereby not creating enough burr or grinding it off sufficiently. For my standard sharpening I apply about 10-20 strokes to each side and then 10-20 strokes alternating before I move to the next grit.
Now and then I use the Sharpy trick (especially at the beginning or when my results are not satisfying) to see if I get to the edge.
For polishing compound on my strop I use some steel polishing liquid (not sure but I think it contains aluminum oxide). Don't know the brand/type, but I also have some Cr2O3 laying around

Will update on the result soon
 
Good post crafty! Reading about your standard process is helpful. Do you raise a burr on one side, then remove it and create a burr form the other side? That is what is looks like would happen before you alternate strokes. Also, how do you remove the burr once you have created it?

I will be looking forward to your update to see if you have achieved an edge you are satisfied with on VG10. :)
 
It's some time ago I started this post. Have been quite busy at work and at the climbing association (giving instructions in rock and sports climbing) last weeks.
Tried sharpening on my water stones one more time after my last post, but didn't get a really satisfying result. Since then not much time to tackle my sharpening problem with VG10.
During one of my climbing weekends I took my DC4 stone and touched my Delica 4 up again with the diamond side and then finished with the ceramic. Actually got quite a nice edge this time. So with my DC4 stone I get a nice result as long as I take enough time for it ;)
For the water stones I've to give it another try, but for some reason it seems that I'm rounding my edges instead of creating a nice edge while using my water stones. Maybe I'm not keeping my edge constant while sharpening or still using to much pressure. When I've time again I'll give it another. Just got to keep practicing :)

oh, did touch up my Gransfors axe succesfully, got it really sharp and shaved my chin with it :D but that's not VG10 of course ;)
 
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