Victorian Era 1800's Slater Brothers Sheffield fixed blade, what happened to distil taper on the tangs?

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Here is a lovely example I just aquired, in excellent condition with natural patina from the Slater Bros Venture works in sheffield. Note the quite aggressive distil taper running down the entire length of the tang. Something that was quite common among well made hand forged I knives coming out of Sheffield England in the 1800's.
A feature that is often not included with modern knives. It seems that adding a distil taper to the tang of knives was important to many smiths in history prior to the advent of industrial machine production. We find this tang taper on many old Bowie knives, Hunting knives, Scout knives and even butchers knives.
It does make a difference in the handling, you can feel a concerntration of P.O.B gathering around the bolster where your thumb and index finger sit, leaving the very butt of the handle lighter and the tip of the blade lighter. It's a very subtle feeling, but it is noticed compared to having a full tang thickness.
Just wanted to share pictures of this knife and a little showcase of the tang taper for those that might find it interesting, have a nice day.
Venture antique Tang taper Makers stamp
 
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Ahh, thank you! Very elegant; any kitchen or hunting camp would benefit from such a knife. :thumbsup:
It's a wonderful knife, in very usable condition, a great piece of sheffield history, the steel seems very good as well, I ran it over a ceramic rod and it was back to shaving sharp within about 5 passes.
 
Here is a lovely example I just aquired, in excellent condition with natural patina from the Slater Bros Venture works in sheffield. Note the quite aggressive distil taper running down the entire length of the tang. Something that was quite common among well made hand forged I knives coming out of Sheffield England in the 1800's.
A feature that is often not included with modern knives. It seems that adding a distil taper to the tang of knives was important to many smiths in history prior to the advent of industrial machine production. We find this tang taper on many old Bowie knives, Hunting knives, Scout knives and even butchers knives.
It does make a difference in the handling, you can feel a concerntration of P.O.B gathering around the bolster where your thumb and index finger sit, leaving the very butt of the handle lighter and the tip of the blade lighter. It's a very subtle feeling, but it is noticed compared to having a full tang thickness.
Just wanted to share pictures of this knife and a little showcase of the tang taper for those that might find it interesting, have a nice day.
Venture antique Tang taper Makers stamp
Is that a shield or pin on the handle? And what kind of wood do you think maybe that is?
I have 3 Sheffield fixed blade knives from the 1800's (3 different cutlers) and all three have that taper.
I hadn't even noticed the taper until I read your post and looked at my knives LOL.
 
Is that a shield or pin on the handle? And what kind of wood do you think maybe that is?
I have 3 Sheffield fixed blade knives from the 1800's (3 different cutlers) and all three have that taper.
I hadn't even noticed the taper until I read your post and looked at my knives LOL.

It's an oversized peened pin, I just took a closer look to make sure, there doesn't appear to be any form of symbols or emblems on it. It looks like there is a second smaller pin running through the larger one as well, when I hold the knife to the light I can see the outline of a secondary smaller pin in the middle of the larger pin, sanded flush.
I believe it is a butchers knife, a fancy butchers knife by comparison to some of the cruder ones of that period, probably marketed towards higher end eating establishments or cooks who work for well to do victorian families.
Haha I'm glad this thread had some use at least and you noticed the tang taper on your knives, 1800's sheffield knives are very well made, some of the best in the world.
 
It's an oversized peened pin, I just took a closer look to make sure, there doesn't appear to be any form of symbols or emblems on it. It looks like there is a second smaller pin running through the larger one as well, when I hold the knife to the light I can see the outline of a secondary smaller pin in the middle of the larger pin, sanded flush.
I believe it is a butchers knife, a fancy butchers knife by comparison to some of the cruder ones of that period, probably marketed towards higher end eating establishments or cooks who work for well to do victorian families.
Haha I'm glad this thread had some use at least and you noticed the tang taper on your knives, 1800's sheffield knives are very well made, some of the best in the world.
Love the old steel. It has a "ring" to it when sharpening. Can almost FEEL the steel composition and heat treatment while easily bringing the edge to shaving sharpness. Thank you for sharing your latest acquisition. Lot of life left in that beautiful old Sheffield and it looks ready to go to work again. NICE !!!
 
Love the old steel. It has a "ring" to it when sharpening. Can almost FEEL the steel composition and heat treatment while easily bringing the edge to shaving sharpness. Thank you for sharing your latest acquisition. Lot of life left in that beautiful old Sheffield and it looks ready to go to work again. NICE !!!

Oh yes, this took a razor edge without effort, came back very fine didn't even need to form a burr or put it on stones, just ran some passes on a ceramic rod and it's back in action, very fine grain structure by the feel of it.
I'm glad you enjoyed seeing it, this blade 100% has decades of life left in it, for a user it has not suffered much loss of edge from over sharpening, it's original owner took very good care of the knife it seems.
 
A very interesting example, quality too but how do you age it? The distal taper is impressive and I'd imagine it does impact on the handling qualities. Hope to hear more about this knife.

Thanks, Will
 
Found this about SLATER BROS ...


This cutlery business was founded in 1858 by Warrington Slater (1838-1907), who owned it with his brother, Walter Slater (1840-1917). They were the sons of John Marriott Slater and Ann Warrington. John (d. 1871) was spring knife cutler in Garden Street and then Pea Croft. Warrington was described in the Census (1871) as a spring knife cutler and local preacher (he was a Baptist). The firm was first listed as W. & W. Slater in Eyre Street (at the factory of George Butler), but was soon known as Slater Bros. The company manufactured pen and pocket knives, table cutlery, Bowies and dirks, many of which were shipped to South American markets. The firm is known to have made pocket knives for Frederic Barnes & Co for shipment to South America.

In 1876, the firm moved to 94 Scotland Street. A full-page advertisement in a Sheffield directory (1884) announced: ‘Every Knife Made by Good Workmen … the Very Best Cast Steel Exclusively Used’. The number of patterns was precise: 5,914. Unwin & Rodgers’ knives and pistol-knives are pictured, perhaps because Slater had bought its old stock. Slater’s marks included VENTURE’ and ‘BEEHIVE’. He acquired the latter in 1876 (it had been used by John Hinchliffe and also apparently by Cockhill). Slater later acquired ‘Y. NOT’ (once owned by George Ward). Slater’s factory was dubbed Beehive Works and by 1885 was in Fitzwilliam Street. Its gadget knives – such as one with a nickel-silver comb – received favourable comment in The Ironmonger, 19 September 1885. Warrington Slater recalled: ‘For about 39 or 40 years, we struggled hard, made a great deal of money, had large families, a good deal of expense attending their education and very considerable affliction through it all, but, right up to 1896 there was every prospect of both Slater Bros and myself becoming rich’ (Taylor, 1993). Slater ran a series of confident advertisements in the 1890s, featuring the firm’s razors and announcing: ‘BRITISH VICTORY: Neither France, Russia, nor Germany Can Produce Such Cutlery as That Manufactured by Slater. CRUSHING DEFEAT AWAITS ALL COMPETITORS’.

While the cutlery business prospered, however, Warrington had other schemes for enrichment. He became a property developer and built scores of houses in the Crookes’ area, where he himself lived. Warrington Road and Beehive Road record his involvement. However, Warrington over-reached himself and his property speculations ended in bankruptcy. Between 1900 and 1903, he was regularly in the news. He was sued for fraud (Sheffield Independent, 24 October 1900). That case was settled out of court. However, it was a prelude to a sensational trial, which led to the jailing of Alderman Charles Hobson JP for three months. Hobson was convicted of accepting £100 from Slater for ensuring that the Council would look favourably on Slater’s land purchases in Crookes (Sheffield Independent, 25 June, 6 July 1903). Hobson and Slater were partners in the Crookes Ganister & Brick Co. More bad publicity followed when Warrington’s wife attempted to claim on her bankrupt husband’s estate (Sheffield Daily Telegraph, 16 October 1903).

In 1903, Slater’s cutlery stock and trademarks were sold, and the ‘BEEHIVE’ mark passed to Marples & Co. Warrington Slater died at his home at 223 School Road, Crookes, on 5 May 1907, aged 69. He was buried in the General Cemetery (so, too, was his son Warrington, ‘cutlery manufacturer’, who had died on 17 November 1896, aged 31). Warrington Sen.’s eldest son, Herbert Marriott. Slater (1863-1953), started a new business. In 1907, he registered a silver mark (‘H.M.S’) at 105 Arundel Street – a compact, three-storied factory, later named Venture Works. In 1931, Herbert M. Slater Ltd was incorporated. Herbert re-established the family’s reputation for the production of most types of cutlery, but especially pocket knives and razors. He lived at Lydgate Lane and died on 4 June 1953, leaving £21,929.

Under his son and grandson – Warrington Percy Slater (1897-1983) and Warrington Denis Slater (1923-1994) – Slater’s was one of the survivors of the Sheffield cutlery trade in the twentieth century. In the inter-war period, it made pocket-knife materials – such as blade blanks, springs and liners – for many of the leading firms, such as Rodgers and Wostenholm. After 1945, it acquired several old names and marks. These included Jonathan Crookes; John Milner; M. Hunter & Son; Needham Bros; H. G. Long; Westby; W. & J.A. Baxter; and Albert Oates. The same ‘VENTURE’ mark was used with agreement by Thomas Glossop & Sons.

After the 1960s, Denis Slater acquired J. Dewsnap Bowler and Joseph Elliot & Sons. By the end of the 1980s, however, cutlery production had ceased at Venture Works. It had been many years since Slater’s own workers made the premium pocket-knives it sold (these were invariably made by outworkers, such as Stan Shaw and Graham Clayton, and then stamped with Slater or other marks). By the early 1990s, Denis Slater had sold the business and retired. He died on 26 February 1994 at his home at Curbar, near Sheffield, leaving £407,326. Venture Works was renovated and converted into offices.


SlaterBros1881.jpg
SlaterBrosPicShefs02684.jpg


SlaterBrosBeehive.jpg
SlaterBroscutlerybox2.jpg
 
A very interesting example, quality too but how do you age it? The distal taper is impressive and I'd imagine it does impact on the handling qualities. Hope to hear more about this knife.

Thanks, Will
I get my knives from antique dealers over here in the UK, we have lots of antique shops, highstreet and online ones that stock lots of old sheffield knives. Living in London gives me good access to the knives that are still in circulation. Same goes for antique British military swords we have tons of those in circulation as well Online and walk in Auction houses etc.
I tried to find other copies of this exact knife when doing research after I bought it, but I can't find any other exact examples of this knife from the Slater brothers, it's either a unique one off piece, or the other owners just haven't put any photographs of this exact model online, or I just can't find it.
The dealer I bought it from told me it was most likely a butchers knife or form of culinary knife, dating back to the early Slater Brothers Venture works production before they branched off. Probably mid to late 1800's era.
 
Found this about SLATER BROS ...


This cutlery business was founded in 1858 by Warrington Slater (1838-1907), who owned it with his brother, Walter Slater (1840-1917). They were the sons of John Marriott Slater and Ann Warrington. John (d. 1871) was spring knife cutler in Garden Street and then Pea Croft. Warrington was described in the Census (1871) as a spring knife cutler and local preacher (he was a Baptist). The firm was first listed as W. & W. Slater in Eyre Street (at the factory of George Butler), but was soon known as Slater Bros. The company manufactured pen and pocket knives, table cutlery, Bowies and dirks, many of which were shipped to South American markets. The firm is known to have made pocket knives for Frederic Barnes & Co for shipment to South America.

In 1876, the firm moved to 94 Scotland Street. A full-page advertisement in a Sheffield directory (1884) announced: ‘Every Knife Made by Good Workmen … the Very Best Cast Steel Exclusively Used’. The number of patterns was precise: 5,914. Unwin & Rodgers’ knives and pistol-knives are pictured, perhaps because Slater had bought its old stock. Slater’s marks included VENTURE’ and ‘BEEHIVE’. He acquired the latter in 1876 (it had been used by John Hinchliffe and also apparently by Cockhill). Slater later acquired ‘Y. NOT’ (once owned by George Ward). Slater’s factory was dubbed Beehive Works and by 1885 was in Fitzwilliam Street. Its gadget knives – such as one with a nickel-silver comb – received favourable comment in The Ironmonger, 19 September 1885. Warrington Slater recalled: ‘For about 39 or 40 years, we struggled hard, made a great deal of money, had large families, a good deal of expense attending their education and very considerable affliction through it all, but, right up to 1896 there was every prospect of both Slater Bros and myself becoming rich’ (Taylor, 1993). Slater ran a series of confident advertisements in the 1890s, featuring the firm’s razors and announcing: ‘BRITISH VICTORY: Neither France, Russia, nor Germany Can Produce Such Cutlery as That Manufactured by Slater. CRUSHING DEFEAT AWAITS ALL COMPETITORS’.

While the cutlery business prospered, however, Warrington had other schemes for enrichment. He became a property developer and built scores of houses in the Crookes’ area, where he himself lived. Warrington Road and Beehive Road record his involvement. However, Warrington over-reached himself and his property speculations ended in bankruptcy. Between 1900 and 1903, he was regularly in the news. He was sued for fraud (Sheffield Independent, 24 October 1900). That case was settled out of court. However, it was a prelude to a sensational trial, which led to the jailing of Alderman Charles Hobson JP for three months. Hobson was convicted of accepting £100 from Slater for ensuring that the Council would look favourably on Slater’s land purchases in Crookes (Sheffield Independent, 25 June, 6 July 1903). Hobson and Slater were partners in the Crookes Ganister & Brick Co. More bad publicity followed when Warrington’s wife attempted to claim on her bankrupt husband’s estate (Sheffield Daily Telegraph, 16 October 1903).

In 1903, Slater’s cutlery stock and trademarks were sold, and the ‘BEEHIVE’ mark passed to Marples & Co. Warrington Slater died at his home at 223 School Road, Crookes, on 5 May 1907, aged 69. He was buried in the General Cemetery (so, too, was his son Warrington, ‘cutlery manufacturer’, who had died on 17 November 1896, aged 31). Warrington Sen.’s eldest son, Herbert Marriott. Slater (1863-1953), started a new business. In 1907, he registered a silver mark (‘H.M.S’) at 105 Arundel Street – a compact, three-storied factory, later named Venture Works. In 1931, Herbert M. Slater Ltd was incorporated. Herbert re-established the family’s reputation for the production of most types of cutlery, but especially pocket knives and razors. He lived at Lydgate Lane and died on 4 June 1953, leaving £21,929.

Under his son and grandson – Warrington Percy Slater (1897-1983) and Warrington Denis Slater (1923-1994) – Slater’s was one of the survivors of the Sheffield cutlery trade in the twentieth century. In the inter-war period, it made pocket-knife materials – such as blade blanks, springs and liners – for many of the leading firms, such as Rodgers and Wostenholm. After 1945, it acquired several old names and marks. These included Jonathan Crookes; John Milner; M. Hunter & Son; Needham Bros; H. G. Long; Westby; W. & J.A. Baxter; and Albert Oates. The same ‘VENTURE’ mark was used with agreement by Thomas Glossop & Sons.

After the 1960s, Denis Slater acquired J. Dewsnap Bowler and Joseph Elliot & Sons. By the end of the 1980s, however, cutlery production had ceased at Venture Works. It had been many years since Slater’s own workers made the premium pocket-knives it sold (these were invariably made by outworkers, such as Stan Shaw and Graham Clayton, and then stamped with Slater or other marks). By the early 1990s, Denis Slater had sold the business and retired. He died on 26 February 1994 at his home at Curbar, near Sheffield, leaving £407,326. Venture Works was renovated and converted into offices.


SlaterBros1881.jpg
SlaterBrosPicShefs02684.jpg


SlaterBrosBeehive.jpg
SlaterBroscutlerybox2.jpg
Great information, very good read.
 
Distal taper is not something manufacturers bother with these days, whether it’s the tang or the blade. Part of it is material abundance. Good steel is no longer rare nor expensive, so no need to conserve it. They’re free to use as much as they want.

Second, and more important, is that most knives these days are made via the stock removal method. Stock removal is not amenable to a distally tapered tang. If the maker wants to lighten a tang, the preferred method these days is to drill some lightening holes.

I’ve seen some contemporary knives with distally tapered tangs, but those are usually custom pieces.

My only knife with a distally tapered tang, a khukuri. It's not a custom, but it was forged.

51162725087_f4cfb41d29_c.jpg
 
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Distal taper is not something manufacturers bother with these days, whether it’s the tang or the blade. Part of it is material abundance. Good steel is no longer rare nor expensive, so no need to conserve it. They’re free to use as much as they want.

Second, and more important, is that most knives these days are made via the stock removal method. Stock removal is not amenable to a distally tapered tang. If the maker wants to lighten a tang, the preferred method these days is to drill some lightening holes.

I’ve seen some contemporary knives with distally tapered tangs, but those are usually custom pieces.

My only knife with a fiscally tapered tang, a khukuri. It's not a custom, but it was forged.

51162725087_f4cfb41d29_c.jpg

That's a nice Kukhri, the Karda and Chakmak knives look very snug fit inside the sheath as well.
 
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