Victorinox steel is 'soft' compared to what?

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Fass

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When I read about Victorinox SAK blade steel, the general opinion is that it is a 'soft'. My question is soft compared to what? For everyday general cutting tasks, it has never given me a problem. So what do people mean when they say SAK blade steel is "soft" (56 RC rating I believe). Is this compared to modern super steels, or classic carbon steel like 1095? Please educate me as this is somewhat confusing.
 
It is soft..compared to my other quality knives at 58-60 rc... (like GEC, and BUCK)

Even my opinel in stainless 12C27M is run at 57 to 59.
Feels softer than my S&M in ATS34, or my Cold Steel in Aus8a, or even Krupp 4116 and a few other of their steels.

I do find my SAK to be softer than I like. It does not seem to hold and edge as well as my Opinel.

I'd also say, I find Case's carbon and stainless run too soft forn my tastes.
 
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It IS soft.

Saying a blade steel is soft isn't always a negative. I'm glad my SAK knives have soft steel. They take a laser edge, very easily, so I am fine with them. They're a great user.

I consider my Case CV steel to be soft, also. I like it for a daily user for the same reasons as mentioned above.

Edit to add:

I accidentally raked my Case knife against a steel truck strap buckle yesterday at work, dulling the edge, especially after cutting some webbing.
After I got home I sharpened it back to hair shaving sharp. It took 5 minutes, give or take. As a family man with a wife and 5 year old, I don't have time to resharpen a super steel in a short evening. That's why I personally prefer softer steels for work.
I do have knife knives with good quality steel. My Spyderco, Microtech, and Cold Steel knives obviously have much harder steel. But I use them for light duty applications. They typically only require a stropping or a touch on the ceramic side of my tri stone, once I notice my edge is losing it's hair shaving ability. Keeping the harder steels maintained will keep you from having to do a full sharpening session much less often!

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It is soft compared to the 12C27 @58-60HRC in my Boker Tech Tool, which is one of the reasons I use the Boker if I need something like a SAK.
 
Hardness is not quality. It's just a measure. Spyderco has some of it's steels at rc 65 ish. Is that better? It depends on who you ask. BTW my high hardness "super" steels as some call them take no longer to sharpen than my low hardness low alloy steels like 1095 or soft stainless steel SWA or Case SS . Not with my chosen sharpening stones. I seem to fight less with rubbery burrs with my high hardness steel knives although that may be lower retained austenite and not the hardness. Don't discount high hardness high performing steel just because you like a Swiss Army Knife. They are all good.

Joe
 
How would modern SAK steel compare in hardness to traditional carbon steel? I always read that carbon is harder but I have hard time believing that fairly old formulas of carbon steel that you'd see on a 1960's Era stockman or so, would be harder than a fairly modern stainless steel like the one Victorinox uses. In other words, isn't it partly just a myth that traditional carbon steel would be harder than modern stainless?
 
I'm going to guess that Victorinox/Wenger may not have changed their stainless steel that much over the years? There are some very good, hard carbon steel knives from LONG BEFORE the 1960s!!!!

Fass said:
How would modern SAK steel compare in hardness to traditional carbon steel? I always read that carbon is harder but I have hard time believing that fairly old formulas of carbon steel that you'd see on a 1960's Era stockman or so, would be harder than a fairly modern stainless steel like the one Victorinox uses. In other words, isn't it partly just a myth that traditional carbon steel would be harder than modern stainless?
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So many average people have SAKs,that are otherwise not knife nuts,and their sharpening skills are usually minimal, so i cant see hardening the steel they use to a point where the average person couldnt touch it up on a ceramic or other sharpening device.
 
I'd have to say everything. Most steels are hardened from 57hrc and up. 55 , 56 is hatchet territory for more flexibility than edge holding.

Granted you can sharpen a SAK on a rock or mug or car window so it does have it attributes!
 
I think SAK steel is perfect at where it supposed to be, for the non-knife enthusiast whom do not see sharpening as part of a 'hobby'. I think a steel that is 'softer' is less prone to chipping and breaking, and considering the volume they are making and the life time warranty, that would translate to less cost to produce and lesser repair too.
 
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Fass said:
How would modern SAK steel compare in hardness to traditional carbon steel? I always read that carbon is harder but I have hard time believing that fairly old formulas of carbon steel that you'd see on a 1960's Era stockman or so, would be harder than a fairly modern stainless steel like the one Victorinox uses. In other words, isn't it partly just a myth that traditional carbon steel would be harder than modern stainless?
Click to expand...

In this case the hardness of the blade steel is chosen by the manufacturer. Some pretty low carbon stainless steels can only be hardened to the middle 50's as a practical matter but most high carbon steels and higher carbon stainless can go up to 59-60 or higher. Some well into the 60's and even up to rc 70 but those steels are outside the scope of what you are referring to.

The common simple carbon steels in the older knives from the 60's like 1070 and 1095 can easily be used at hardness's of up to rc 60-63 . The manufacturers in the 60's usually selected carbon steel blades in the middle to high 50's however. Each manufacturer had reasons why they did what they did but it wasn't that they couldn't. Ease of manufacturer certainly factors into their selection.

Joe
 
Fass said:
When I read about Victorinox SAK blade steel, the general opinion is that it is a 'soft'. My question is soft compared to what? For everyday general cutting tasks, it has never given me a problem. So what do people mean when they say SAK blade steel is "soft" (56 RC rating I believe). Is this compared to modern super steels, or classic carbon steel like 1095? Please educate me as this is somewhat confusing.
Click to expand...

It is soft compared to every knife I own, aside from butter knives. It is easy to get sharp and the knives are quite useful but they are a very soft steel.
 
Fass said:
How would modern SAK steel compare in hardness to traditional carbon steel? I always read that carbon is harder but I have hard time believing that fairly old formulas of carbon steel that you'd see on a 1960's Era stockman or so, would be harder than a fairly modern stainless steel like the one Victorinox uses. In other words, isn't it partly just a myth that traditional carbon steel would be harder than modern stainless?
Click to expand...

carbon steel is often a tool steel. Tool steels have been hard enough to machine metal for a couple hundred years.
 
They're soft compared to pretty much everything else I've got. But I don't mind none.

They are never called into play with heavy duty cutting. Clip an Irish Pennant from my shirt here, slice open an envelope there.

And as mentioned, they are quickly and efficiently sharpened on the coffee mug. And stropped with the newspaper. :D
 
Yes, they are a little soft but not a big deal, really.

I have been carrying a Spartan or Cadet lately but, a kitchen steel works wonders on them. No need to pull out the stones or Sharpmaker all the time.
 
Just a question. Is the RC scale linear? We know that higher RC means harder but... how much harder? What does in practical use mean a 2 point harder rating in the RC scale?

I know that RC is a measure of the depth of the indentation created by a device with a diamond tip (either conical or ball shaped) under certain amount of pressure but...I have no idea how the steel behaves under such circumstances.

Sometimes I feel that we start throwing RC ratings arround but might not really understand what it translates into.

Paging LARRIN!

Mikel
 
Mikel_24 said:
Just a question. Is the RC scale linear? We know that higher RC means harder but... how much harder? What does in practical use mean a 2 point harder rating in the RC scale?

I know that RC is a measure of the depth of the indentation created by a device with a diamond tip (either conical or ball shaped) under certain amount of pressure but...I have no idea how the steel behaves under such circumstances.

Sometimes I feel that we start throwing RC ratings arround but might not really understand what it translates into.

Paging LARRIN!

Mikel
Click to expand...
Rockwell hardness has a non-linear correlation with yield strength and ultimate tensile strength. However, any curve is straight over a short enough scale, and with the range of hardness used in knives the behavior is effectively linear.
 
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