Viper Storm -- terrific Hinderer design with one caveat

I have a Viper Ten that I bought here on the sales forum on a whim. I have been very impressed with the quality, and fit and finish. Blade centering, and lock up is excellent. I really like the knife, and blade shape. I would like to get a Fortis, or the Storm next, and am a bit disappointed to hear about the QC issues.
 
Follow up to the deep carry pocket clip, I put a third party deep carry clip on it meant for the Hinderer XM-18 The clip itself matches fine with the holes, but the insert spacer that it comes with is too big to fit into the hollowed out area on the scale. So I had to take a dremel to that insert to make it work.
The knife now sits a lot deeper in my pocket, which is nice, the downside being that it feels a little chunky in the back now while I'm holding it. The original clip had a bit more of a natural feel in the hand.
 
Follow up to the deep carry pocket clip, I put a third party deep carry clip on it meant for the Hinderer XM-18 The clip itself matches fine with the holes, but the insert spacer that it comes with is too big to fit into the hollowed out area on the scale. So I had to take a dremel to that insert to make it work.
The knife now sits a lot deeper in my pocket, which is nice, the downside being that it feels a little chunky in the back now while I'm holding it. The original clip had a bit more of a natural feel in the hand.

Did you reuse the original screws? The longer ones that came with my deep carry clip didn’t seem to fit the hole/thread size.
 
Did you reuse the original screws? The longer ones that came with my deep carry clip didn’t seem to fit the hole/thread size.
I used the screws that came with it, they seemed to fit fine for me. I got the mxg gear clip.
 
My local knife store was about to order me one. They know how much I like Hinderer designs. Good thing I wasn't stupid about it and told them to wait until I had thought about it some more.

Seems like they are having a bunch of issues. It's high time I just got a real deal Hinderer.
 
I used the screws that came with it, they seemed to fit fine for me. I got the mxg gear clip.
Hmm. Me too. Maybe I just didn’t have it perpendicular when I tried to start the threads. Will check it out again. Thanks.
 
I just ordered the CF Stonewashed Storm from CollectorKnives. They seem to have the best price by far and I got another 25 bucks or so off using the points I'd built up there, so my knife came in just over $150.

I've wanted another Hinderer for a while, but with my XM18 3.5, XM24 REK re-grind, and MP1 Micarta I pretty much have the size bases covered that would fit my hand OK. The XM18 3 and HalfTrack are too small for my grip (especially at the price, if that makes sense) and the Jurassic doesn't seem different enough to interest me. The Storm seems to echo features of both the HalfTrack and MP1 at a nice in between size. I like the modular backspacer too, not for change-outs, but as it puts the lanyard hole all the way back and out of the way much like my 111 and F95 Shiros. I'm not a deep carry guy either and don't mind a bit of the knife riding up out the pocket.

I thought about getting a ZT0562 instead, but it's a bit more, quite similar to the XM18 3.5, and I've been on a bit of an Italian knife kick lately.

I'll be interested to see the level of F&F with mine and if there are any lockstick issues. I don't think I've ever had a knife with lockstick that I wasn't able to resolve. I'll post again after I've carried the knife for a few days.
 
Please note that you should not apply lubricants to the lockbar and blade interface. On some knives, especially liner locks, this can allow locks to slip. Sometimes applying marker ink like from a Sharpie can help reduce lock bar stick from Ti on Ti.
 
I've found that lubricants of any kind can be a real crapshoot.

Nearly every one of my Emerson knives benefits from applying Sharpie. Lubricants were counter productive on my Strider SnGs.

The best fix for the Storm would be for Viper to start carbidizing them.

The next best fix for those who already own them would be to find a modder who can carbidize them.

Sadly, Viper doesn't seem to be at all responsive to these issues.
 
Please note that you should not apply lubricants to the lockbar and blade interface. On some knives, especially liner locks, this can allow locks to slip. Sometimes applying marker ink like from a Sharpie can help reduce lock bar stick from Ti on Ti.
For sure lubricants make lockstick exponentially worse by allowing the lock bar to travel even farther. I've had no real luck with using a Sharpie, but pencil "lead" (graphite) works very well. You can also put the tiniest micro bevel on the leading edge of the lock bar using just a couple swipes with high grit sandpaper. Also polishing both surfaces with a Dremel and white paste can help remove any irregularities. Both the latter help keep the lock bar from digging in.

I think you must have meant Ti on steel, as it's the dissimilar metals that result in galling or lockstick. Not many knives with Ti blade tangs out there. :p
 
I got my CF stonewashed Viper Storm today and must say the quality out-of-box is excellent. Dead-balls centered, no play or grittiness, excellent overall F&F, and the knife came very clean with no gunk or excess lubricant. The flipping action is decent--snappier than either of my XMs and about the same as my MP1--and I'm sure it will improve with a little break-in and better lubrication. Overall I'm very pleased with it, especially at CollectorKnives' excellent price less 25 bucks or so of accumulated bonus points. I've been on a bit of an Italian knife kick lately, adding to my one Fox with 4 lionSTEELs. If Viper's F&F is a step down or hit-and-miss then maybe I got lucky as this is an excellent specimen.

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I was so excited about the Viper Storm I ordered two -- the CF and the G-10 versions. Both stonewashed. The satin models are priced higher and show scratches easier.

Out-of-the box, I loved the design. In size, it's between the Hinderer MP-1 and Half-Track at half the price with better blade steel.

The 4-inch handle allows for a great fit. But this is NOT one of those just-over 3-inch folders that are as easy to pocket carry as a slim 3-incher. A LionSteel TRE it's not. At 3.1 inches, with .16-inch bladestock and weight over 4 oz, this is a robust folder that gives the impression of being capable of serious business.

The clip on my G-10 Storm had too much "air" to tightly hold my thin summer running pants and shorts. It's fine for jeans. The clip on my CF version fit my running pants and shorts perfectly.

The Viper Storm is a snappy flipper without being overly strong like, for example, the 2015 ZTs. It's fun to use manually with the thumb studs. It even flicks nicely. The thumb studs are a bit closer than ideal to the cutout. This reminds me of one of my favorite folders, the Fantoni HB02. With both folders, my fingers quickly adjusted to using the studs.

Both Storms open smoothly and easily. The blades fall closed using just a light shake.

Out-of-the box, both Storms initially closed smoothly. I had asked my dealer to check for that and the sliced- open plastic baggies told me that he had.

But that quickly changed and both Storms began exhibiting that scraping noise that comes with the dreaded sticky lock bar symptom. A dead giveaway that a lockbar face with titanium liners lacks either a steel insert or carbidzing. The Storm has neither.

I tried break-in without success. Next, I added a tiny drop of Nano Oil to the G-10, which seemed to help at first. Then I saw black lube gushing out onto the blade. Someone who had known about the sticky issue had already lubed this Storm. A lot.

Then my second Storm, the CF, arrived. Same thing: smooth closing, quickly followed by a gritty stickiness. But this time the single drop of Nano worked. Closing still wasn't perfectly smooth but was acceptable.

Not so the G-10, which BHQ has authorized me to return.

The Viper Storm is a terrific design at an attractive price. It is marred by a single issue, which you may or may not be able to live with, depending upon how picky you are. I decided to live with the CF even though it is not perfect. I like it that much.

As for Viper, it should recall all the Storms and carbidize them.

At $200, give or take, the Storms should be as smooth as recent ZT models priced about the same. Instead, they are more like the original ZT 560s that were sometimes gritty and sometimes not until ZT did a better job of caridizing and finally added steel inserts.

You may or may not get a Storm that is acceptable to you. If you do, consider yourself lucky -- it's a Hinderer design that's definitely worth having.

Here is a fine video of the Storm by Tyler at GP Knives:


Here is a YT review by EDC Gear Reviews, who mentions the sticky issue:


A permanent solution, there are people who will carbidize the face for you.

However I don't have a problem with lock stick because it isn't an issue that will make the lock more likely to fail. At the same time almost every knife I have owned with lockstick eventually wore to a spot where the lock up was just right and perfect. The lockstick wore away a little metal at a time work hardening the lockface.

At the same time a little metal is removed with each lock stick until exactly enough metal wears away that lock stick no longer happens. Thus the lock is literally broken in to fit the tang.

Ideally every maker would be like Chris Reeve and match a perfectly mated carbidized lockface to the tang. I think alot of makers make use of titanium lock's tendancy to wear in like this so their tolerances don't have to be 100% percise. Better to make the lock a tiny bit longer and let it wear in, which causes lockstick, than make it too short and get lockslip, which tends to be a fatal flaw in these locks.
 
Who -- I've been looking?

To be honest I don't know because I never get my raw Ti framelocks carburized. However I have heard many people mention it on here. Perhaps you could start a thread asking where to get it done.

Also please note there is a mistake in my previous post. You want to get your lockface carburized, not carbidized. Carburization is what Chris Reeve does to their Sebenza lockfaces. Carbidization is those carbide deposits they sometimes put on the unground side of titanium blades.
 
A permanent solution, there are people who will carbidize the face for you.

However I don't have a problem with lock stick because it isn't an issue that will make the lock more likely to fail. At the same time almost every knife I have owned with lockstick eventually wore to a spot where the lock up was just right and perfect. The lockstick wore away a little metal at a time work hardening the lockface.

At the same time a little metal is removed with each lock stick until exactly enough metal wears away that lock stick no longer happens. Thus the lock is literally broken in to fit the tang.

Ideally every maker would be like Chris Reeve and match a perfectly mated carbidized lockface to the tang. I think alot of makers make use of titanium lock's tendancy to wear in like this so their tolerances don't have to be 100% percise. Better to make the lock a tiny bit longer and let it wear in, which causes lockstick, than make it too short and get lockslip, which tends to be a fatal flaw in these locks.
There are so many guys that don't get the whole break-in thing, whether it be locking/unlocking issues, action, flipping, blade tension, whatever. There's a whole mentality that says, I payed x amount for this it must be perfect out of the box. Your take on lockstick is eminently reasonable and generally borne out by results. Not a lot of patience to go around.
There was a time when lockstick was considered to be a good thing.

BTW, I think you meant carburized re CRK, as they heat the end of the lock bar to harden it.
 
Just re-read the thread and see that our last two posts kinda crossed in the mail, Lapedog Lapedog and you clarified your earlier post re carburization and carbidization.
We're definitely on the same page re lockstick and break in, though. :cool:
 
Carburizing (hardening) of the titanium lock bar should be done by the manufacturers as CRK, Hinderer and others have done. This is in lieu of the hardened steel lock bar interface.

It should not be handed off to the customer to go through the laborious and time-consuming process of applying sharpie as seems to be the case with the Viper Storm and of course Emerson titanium liner locks. If it means an increase in price so be it.
 
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