Warning! Lots of bad words, thoughts and images.

Joined
Feb 16, 2000
Messages
1,385
Okay,
Like I said, this post is for those who don't mind bad words, thoughts or images.
Seems to be a lot of talk out there about ‘fighting' knives and fighting with knives.
So lets talk about ‘fighting' with a knife.
There are a lot of theories out there on the subject.
I would like to hear some of yours.
Then Ill share mine.


Don't be shy

Mick


Post Script: If you're a multi-forum person, sorry about the repeat.


RLTW
 
Knife against unarmed, knife against knife, knife against firearm? What exactly, all of the above?
 
I think I would have much better chances with one of my firearms, which I practice with frequently, BUT because I live in a liberal state (California) where getting a concealed-carry permit is nearly impossible, a folder is all I can legally carry concealed on a daily basis.

I sure would hate to fight someone with a folder, especially with no training...
 
I feel i have to respond... So i can be the stupid guy that gets everything wrong and others can flame and correct.

To quote a medeocre (sp) movie (zoro) "the pointy end goes in the other guy"

The Romans were excellent close quaters fighters, it has been said that the roman soilder was actually most skilled in the art of killing in the anceint world. The romans discovered that a slash delivered in CQC was far less effective than a stubbing puncture wound, so they used a Gladius for the purpose of Pokeing the enemy.

If i were not such a nice guy and chose to poke someone i would pick a place about the diaphram. since that is were all the important stuff is (a lower poke maybe just as bad in the long run though)a stab wound to the upper chest would probably be the most efective way to dispatch someone.

On the other hand, a slash can be a very effective way to stop someone, a slash from a heavish blade to the temple/eye socket, would certainly ruin someones motivation and a hit like this would allow the fighter to move away quickly since it would not be necessary to withdrawl your blade.

Also if you are getting really technical it would be nice to hit major blood vessels, femeral artery would be a good one to sever, you can also find high traffic areas in the neck and the arm pits.

Now how to actually accomplish this...i have no idea, all i know is i hope i never do, but if i did i would want to do it before the other guy.

peace,

Brian

(ironicly yours)
 
btw i promise to buy one of your knives someday.

add

i would also use my skills i learned as a wrestler. lead right foot, use same foot work (aka dont fall over when moving) knees bent back straight and all that other positioning stuff.

To attack i would probably use a setup for a take down quick arm pump followed by a thrust, elbows in and all that stuff as well.
 
Can I use a Tomahawk in my right hand if I have my MSC 6.5 in my left hand, reverse grip? ;)

Hey MICK!!! I'm gonna enjoy watching this thread.

Talk to you soon....have something cool to tell you.
 
I admit I dont know beans about knife fighting, thats why I carry a gun and a knife! I will certainly go for the gun first if at all possible. OK, here is where I will piss some people off. There is that old 21 feet saying that a guy trained with a knife can take you at 21 feet if you have a gun. I say WRONG if you are up to snuff with your gunhandling. I proved it to a knife fighter guy last summer and his eyes got really wide. I even drew from concealment, and triple tapped him center mass. I am not saying my teqnique would work everytime though. The thing is whatever you choose to defend yourself with you should train with daily!

On with knife fighting, I saw the results of 2 Cheyenne's that went at each other. One died the other lived. Both were sliced up pretty bad, but the guy who died had one neat puncture wound to his heart, that was the cause of death. I think I will stab and not slash if it ever was to come up.

Well, thats about all I know about it! :D
 
Knife fighting. Many hand to hand techniques can be adapted to be used in conjunction with a knife and vice versa. I personally like filipino combative arts knife styles, such as Sayoc and Kai Illustrisimo knife techniques. The multiple attacks implemented can be devastating.

Much is written about knife fighting in general and some say that "no matter what, you're gonna get cut" no matter how much you train. I agree and disagree. If you train a lot, then your chances of avoiding cuts and coming out of a fight unscathed, are probably high. But I've sparred with a fellow friend in the past, and though I have no formal knife training (my background is Judo and Iaijutsu), I was still able to induce several fatal stabs and cuts to my well-trained FMA friend. Probably just dumb luck, and we would have both probably died as a result of the wounds. However, I have seen my friend train with others and he can inflict something like 7 to 10 cuts in less than 2 seconds. It was pretty impressive.

I have only had one knife encounter, but I walked away from that one without suffering and wounds so that's my only live experience.

What I have been taught is: go for major and specific targets when possible: the throat, the eyes, the chest, abdomen, kidney area, thigh. To disarm or render another knife fighter disabled, sever the tendons of the forearm or hand. Also, cut the opponent where he least expects it; flank area, lateral side or behind the neck, brachial area.

For knife design, bigger isn't always better, but we are talking fighting knives now and I would prefer a light, quick, and balanced blade, with at least a 5" blade, rather than a heavy chopper (although the chopper would work too) I think the model GS might come to mind, but all Striders are pretty nicely balanced. I used to like the Americanized tanto blade a lot, but I now prefer a clip, spear, or recurved blade. I think tip, blade shape, and edge geometry are important in the design of a fighting knife. The less drag the better. I used to like the traditional Japanese tanto (still do) but there are better fighting knife designs. I also don't like thin grips, but the knife has to have enough of a grip that remains secure. Polished and poorly contoured grips, I don't like. These criteria are more for a fighting specific knife, but many of up just carry a small folder or fixed blade daily. I guess the saying "the best knife is the one you have on you" applies.

I totally advocate the carry of knives for the purpose of a defensive role. I mean, if you are confronted with someone who wants to kill you with a knife, and you don't have something better like a gun, and you don't have the option of walking or running away, then a knife is great. However, in my daily activities, I doubt that I will ever encounter a situation, unless I have a seriously disappointed patient! or a robbery ( who would want to rob a Chiropractor? The Chio down the street maybe?). But I like knives and I enjoy carrying then and using them. That is why, though it may be overkill, I will carry an AR clipped to my slacks.

You never know what can happen.
 
Regarding the 21 foot rule, there is a video called "Edged Weapons" from Calibre Press. In this video, they advocate a minimum of 21 feet when dealing with an individual armed with an edged weapon and thats assuming you have a gun and you have it holstered. It is an eye-opening video to say the least and it convincingly demontrates why you would not want to be within that 21 foot range.
 
I too would stick to my .45 if possible, I figure emptying a mag into an attacker ought to take care of it. If I missed, I would go with Rob's idea and try to stab the dude with a thrust. Never had to defend my life so far... but I got jumped once, and I surprised the S**t outta myself by basically going berserk on the guy. Surprised the S**t out of him too, because he didn't want to stick around to see what I did next, I guess. Must be the Viking in me.
I'm hoping I don't have to find out what I'd do in a knife fight, but fully intend to learn as much as I can from my bud's who had hand-to-hand combat training. I figure it is sort of like using a gun, in that if you don't have a clue what youre doing, you're gonna get screwed (maybe literally!) But, If I have time to draw a knife, I am sure I'd have time to draw my Kimber. I figure a few 230 grains ought to do it.
My thanks to the Strider guys for making my new GB, I know I'll be able to rely on it if I need it!
out,

-Dave
 
on knife fighting or anything else for that matter. But I'll add my opinion anyway. Assuming someone( the bad guy ) has gotten past my firearm I will have hoped I'd had the following in order:

-cardio-vascular conditioning, it's hard to do anything much less defend yourself if you can't breath.

-lots of repetitive training in basic and brutal movements with the knife. Movements that are intuitive and more likely to be performed naturally under stress.

-attitude, I will respond in a way where it will hard for any present to decide which of us is the bad guy

Sounds simple, which I guess isn't always bad.

Martin
 
God forbid I would ever have to fight with a knife or fight anyone who had a knife. I think I'd do the sneaker defense and take off because from what I've seen fighting with a knife is brutal, messy, and horrifying whether you're the stabber or the one getting stabbed.

But if I did, I'd use the technique taught by Mr. Ajax at the Practical Edged Weapons seminar from last October. I know I'd **** a brick (right before I died) if a guy came at me like that.
 
Hello all,

Let me first preface my statements by saying that I am not an authority in the field of knife fighting, but I do train and teach Filipino martial arts. Regardless of how much training one has, there's always more to learn.
Knife fighting relies on targets of opportunity, footwork, and angles. Although the ideal target in a knife fight is an opponent's major arteries(i.e.: neck, inside wrists/forearms, inside thighs), the truth of the matter is.....you cut what you can reach. Sometimes my target is the weapon hand. Not so much to disarm my opponent, but to hopefully prevent him or her from cutting me. Then again, how my opponent attacks dictates my plan of attack. I primarily employ slashing techniques to cause as much blood loss as possible, while using stabbing techniques as a "finishing move". Quite frankly, if my opponent seems like he or she knows what they're doing.....I'll try to maintain a medium distance(arms length) and hope my health insurance is as good as it seems.
Footwork and angulation will "open up" your targets of opportunity. It would be too difficult to elaborate on each, but suffice it to say, FMA is based upon those two principles.
As far as the "ideal" knife or design....well, that depends on the style of fighting employed and the fighter themselves. A good knife fighter can inflict serious, if not fatal, damage regardless of knife size. It boils down to what a person trains with and what they feel comfortable with. The last thing I think about in a knife fight is what kind of steel or blade shape it has. I'm more concerned with how the knife feels in my hand. Does it fit my hand...is the gripping surface "tacky" enough(sweat, blood, and Mr. Murphy will do their best to part you from your weapon). I own several knives of varying steels and blade shape. The only common denominator is that I like how they feel in my hand. And no Mick.....I'm not referring to the infamous ergonomic knife handle. Damn, this is the longest reply I've ever posted. Hope I didn't bore any of you.

Mabuhay Eskrima!

Adrian
 
:cool:

Slash the vital arteries and exposed skin (i.e. hands, face) results in bleeding has tremendous psychological effect.

After the slash, follow up with several stabs to the vital organs (heart, liver), this neutralizes them alot faster.

Step back, smile, and tell them they are bleeding like a stuck pig and ask if they feel cold yet.


:cool:

This is to be done ONLY to members of the taliban or their supporters.
 
Put on by chuck remsberg and calibre press:

PHUCK fighting with a knife, ALWAYS carry a FIREARM

Now, show me all that fancy Filipino knife fighting BULLSH*T. When it's over, I will GUT YOU with my STRIDER........Ira:p :p
 
Great thread. Apparently, slashing up a pissed off, highly aggresssive mofo intent on hurting you can do little to stop the enemy's actions. Although it's better than nothing, it's probable that it will not prevent a motivated sheethead from hurting you. If you want to go for the main arteries, thrust into them, don't slash. Some arteries are protected with thick muscle and deep - thrust into them. Many people believe in slashing of the arms...why waste time and energy? Basically, why draw a knife unless you intend on terminating the target or unless your life is at serious risk?

I was exchanging stories with a special forces guy a few months ago and I asked him if he was ever in a knife fight. He showed me a very large, ugly scar on his forearm and said it happened years ago when he was young & stupid during a fight outside a club. I can't remember the details but my friend got involved in a scuffle, a guy pulled a knife out of nowhere and in a split second, friend's arm had a very large, deep gash. Friend proceeded to punch knife guy in the throat, taking him out. The reality was that my friend didn't even feel the knife wound until after the fight was over.

Many interesting points made on this thread. I'd like to hear some more. Thanks guys.

:)
 
My first and foremost weapon is my brain, failing that!
"Speed, Surprise, Violence of Action." :D
 
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