Washers,Bushings,Cylinders & Circles

Thechukler

Thechukler

Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Messages
69
Chokwe - Bronze Washer
Breeden Rescue - Teflon (i am assuming Teflon...they're white) Washer

What is the difference, really, in these materials? Although my Chokwe is smooth....its not the buttasmooth pivot my Rescue has. Calling the Rescue "like butter" doesnt even do it justice.

Is this difference in the friction related the washers alone? Should I try and lube up the Chokwe to achieve the smoothness the Rescue provides? I know it seems like the bronze would be "better" but I have never experienced a discernible difference. At least not until I received the smoothest knife in my pack...the Rescue...and noticed the only difference is that its the only knife I have with a Teflon washer (or bushing...or whatever the hell it is)

What are some other models with Teflon? If this is the case...I wanna try some others.
 
I'm curious about this too.

Paramilitary 2's always seem to be really smooth too.

I know it also depends on the lock, lockbacks tend to have some amount of pressure that keeps the blade closed which makes for a slightly harder opening.
 
Teflon, at least in my experience, wears much faster than bronze.. I can't tell you how many people's knives I've opened up to find a split Teflon washer. I don't buy knives if I know the washer is Teflon because I don't like to replace them during maintenance. Their tendency to tear is a deal breaker for me. I've only seen 2 broken bronze washers, for what it's worth to you.
 
I would guess that the plastic washers will be smooth from day one, where as the bronze washers will take a little bit of break in time. Both of my Chokwe's are super smooth. There are other factors in smoothness from lock type to tolerances of everything else that may affect proper movement. I think most people do not like the idea of plastic washers even if Teflon is a proven material. It is seen as cheap and more likely to wear out. At a knife making supply store, they are pretty much the same price <$1.00. I think the only Spyderco's I have seen with Teflon washers come from Japan. Also interesting to note Hinderer knives have Teflon washers.
 
FWIW - I have several original aluminum and G10 Terzuolas (both Sr. and Jr.) which had the white washers. Smoothest Spydies I've ever owned. I've used them extensively for almost 20 years and have never hand any issues with the washers. No splitting, tearing, or burring.

TedP
 
I've been searching the forum for information on washers, bushings, whatever you may call them, but I couldn't really find any general information on them or their usage. There's also some sort of Nylon washer, right?

Anyway, while a stainless steel or possibly titanium washer would produce a lot more friction, would it not be preferable to something that'll wear a lot faster in EDC's? Especially if the choice is between that or a plastic washer. Or would it produce too much friction?
 
jac_solar said:
I've been searching the forum for information on washers, bushings, whatever you may call them, but I couldn't really find any general information on them or their usage. There's also some sort of Nylon washer, right?

Anyway, while a stainless steel or possibly titanium washer would produce a lot more friction, would it not be preferable to something that'll wear a lot faster in EDC's? Especially if the choice is between that or a plastic washer. Or would it produce too much friction?
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The three types of "plastic" washer most commonly used in knives would be teflon, nylon, and nylatron, but there are a number of other types of "plastic" used for washers as well.

As for steel, since friction is what causes wear, low friction materials should last longer. At least in theory, the ideal setup on a knife that uses washers would probably be PTFE (teflon) washers combined with a mirror polished blade tang and mirror polished steel liners. I suspect that titanium's tendency to gall against steel would make it an extremely bad choice.
 
The way I understand it the white washers are Teflon. The non stick stuff. They aren't as rigid as the phos-bronz washers but aid in opening by lowering friction. Rigid implies that they allow side to side play, but I just haven't see it.
 
Thechukler said:
What is the difference, really, in these materials? Although my Chokwe is smooth....its not the buttasmooth pivot my Rescue has. Calling the Rescue "like butter" doesn't even do it justice.
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Wow, having opened that exact Breeden Rescue, and thinking about MY Chokwe, I'm surprised to see you say that. I've said for a long time that my Chokwe was the smoothest opening knife in my Spydie collection. Or at least it was until I received my Nilakka in the mail. If your Chokwe isn't as smooth I'd be wondering what's up.
 
KrisOK said:
Wow, having opened that exact Breeden Rescue, and thinking about MY Chokwe, I'm surprised to see you say that. I've said for a long time that my Chokwe was the smoothest opening knife in my Spydie collection. Or at least it was until I received my Nilakka in the mail. If your Chokwe isn't as smooth I'd be wondering what's up.
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Really? That Breeden is awesome...love it. My Chokwe isn't even as close to as smooth. Shoot....maybe something is up.
 
My Cf/m390 Military user is amazingly smooth, considerably more so than my backup of the same knife. I imagine that the thousands of openings has polished not just the washers but also the detent bearing's path on the blade tang.

Concerning issues with teflon washers I don't have any Spydies with them but that's what Hinderer's use and both mine are both rock solid side to side and super smooth!
 
The Deacon said:
The three types of "plastic" washer most commonly used in knives would be teflon, nylon, and nylatron, but there are a number of other types of "plastic" used for washers as well.

As for steel, since friction is what causes wear, low friction materials should last longer. At least in theory, the ideal setup on a knife that uses washers would probably be PTFE (teflon) washers combined with a mirror polished blade tang and mirror polished steel liners. I suspect that titanium's tendency to gall against steel would make it an extremely bad choice.
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Yeah, titanium is most definitely a bad choice.

But how well does plastic stand up to temperature changes, moist and so forth? There's not much talk about washers in folders at all, so it's probably not an issue in most folders.
 
I can't speak for all of the "plastics" Deacon listed, but Teflon is a material used in my industry in steam safety valves. Not sure if anyone is using them for super heated steam, but I would say if it is used in regular steam for "superior leak-free performance" (vs. a metal to metal sealing surface) it should hold up just fine for a pocket knife. In fact when testing, we have to let it warm up first before it will perform as designed. As far as moisture, 90% of what I do is saturated steam, so I would assume it would hold up just fine to moisture.
 
Yes you definitely don't want to use a Ti, or stainless washer. those materials are too hard.You typically want a durable, but soft material. Hence the use of teflon and plastic. I use Bronze washers on all my knives. It provides the longest lasting option. It is also soft enough not to wear on the titanium parts. Also a bushing, and a washer are completely different things. The bushing is a thick sleeve like piece of metal, which your pivot pin, or pivot screw goes through. The washers are used to separate the bushing from the handle to prevent wear.
 
Unless you have a case where they use a thick plastic washer as your bushing. On some knives a washer and a bushing may look similar, but the purpose is different.
 
TitaniumTim said:
Yes you definitely don't want to use a Ti, or stainless washer. those materials are too hard.You typically want a durable, but soft material. Hence the use of teflon and plastic. I use Bronze washers on all my knives. It provides the longest lasting option. It is also soft enough not to wear on the titanium parts. Also a bushing, and a washer are completely different things. The bushing is a thick sleeve like piece of metal, which your pivot pin, or pivot screw goes through. The washers are used to separate the bushing from the handle to prevent wear.
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FWIW, one of Spyderco's best makers builds all of their knives that use stainless steel liners or handles without any washers. Not sure what the difference would be between that and building one with stainless steel washers. As for bushings and washers, technically, a flat washer used the way they're used in knife pivots is a type of bushing. It's just less confusing to reserve bushing for sleeve bushings like those used by CRK and call flat washers washers.
 
Bob terzuola uses nylatron on his customs. He has stated that bronze washers are inferior. Per Bob, my custom ATCF requires no lubrication due to use of the nylatron washers.
 
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