Ways to test blade performance.

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I was wondering if any of you guys know of any ways to test a blade you're working on. What the tests you do (or know that other people do) are? how they work (the intended result, what to expect from the different kinds of blades for different tasks, steels etc, also what is a bad result for the test).

Obviously excluding actual tests like using a HRC tester, Catra, charpy. Basically things that a new maker I'd able to obtain, or do to know they're heading in the right direction for a blade. I just feel like I'm going in blind right now. I mean, I can follow datasheets, and finish a knife so it looks good, but I want to know that its going to perform.
 
There’s a few tests you can do.
One is, get your blade shaving hair, then see how many times you can chop through a 2x4 and still shave hair (2 times is a good starting point for simple carbon) also check to make sure there’s no glinting or chipping.
You could also do rope cutting tests, you could set it up like Cedric and Ada on YT then compare the results.
Another one to test for edge stability is to take a piece of very hard wood (harder the better) and do twisting cuts out trying to make it chatter (you could also use antler), then inspection for damage, or if you want a more difficult test there’s also the brass rod test.
That’s just a few I can think of off the top of my head, hope that helps.
 
The brass rod was what got me thinking about this. I tried it, although with a much thinner rod on a kitchen knife, and it flexed, didnt break or set, but I really didnt know what I was looking to happen.

I think if I'm going to rope cut test, I'll go more with the phil Wilson style just to save time. Pete at cedric and ada has some real dedication to cut that cisel(?) rope so many times.

The 2x4 test sounds good for bulkier geometry blades. I'm not going to risk it with the kitchen knives, but maybe if I make something that's supposed to be tougher.
 
So I went ahead and tried doing the 2x4 chop test. I did it with, 2 knives. One is a little cpm 10v blade I made. You'll see in the pictures I messed up when I was was cold stamping the cpm 10v steel name in. So I was willing to go ahead and use it as a Guinea pig. If I sell it or something, I'll make sure whoever buys it knows, and also heavily discount it. Anyway, the other one I tested, was a kitchen knife, in 1095, that one didnt fair as well...

https://imgur.com/a/3HttThL

I ended up stopping because I just wasn't seeing any difference to its edge, and idk if you've ever tried chopping with a small knife, but it's not exactly pleasant. I basically had to swing as hard as I could because the size doesn't give you a lot of mechanical advantage. I think this was good enough to show (me at least) the heat treat wasn't a failure.

I'll look into some rope for edge retention testing. Like I mentioned I want something that will dull the knives quickly because I don't want to be cutting all day, but I want it to be consistent, so i can get repeatable results.
 
I tried the batoning test today. It seems to have went well, but I'm not really sure how to test it, or how many times I should really expect to hit it, or what a baseline measurement shout be. I can say, for how thin this thing is (.05 at the spine, and .02 near the tip, and around .012 to .011 bte) it's tough.

https://imgur.com/a/CQT7zXS

I decided to go against the grain I figured that would be harder. Even then, because of the thinness it really seemed to just cut in kind of deep, so I started hammering it in kind of diagonally with about 15 to 20 whacks then pulling it out and checking the edge. I don't see why I wouldn't be Ble to make it through the whole 2x4 with this thing without having any problems, it would just take a bunch of work.
 
CPM-10V isn't known for being tough especially compared to other tough steels BUT it IS known for how long it will hold an edge. With that much Vanadium Carbides it is extremely wear resistant. I have a small pocket knife made from it and it stays sharp a very long time.
 
Ok I tried with another knife. This one is similar in size, made of 52100. About the same thickness behind the edge with a slightly thicker spine. This was actually the last knife I forge heat treat before I finished my oven. I got as far as I did with the 10v still shaving, but on the last go I think I twisted a little and it deformed near the edge. Didnt chip or anything. With this knife I think I'm going to get the handle off, thermal cycle, and reheat treat with the kiln. It's hard, but that's showing me that doing it in the forge just didnt get me where I wanted for that knife.


Also I hit my thumb with the baton testing it really hard. It still hurts lol.

https://imgur.com/a/9s5h33X

Edit: look near the tip kinda you can see the slight deformation.
 
mooniesdl3 said:
CPM-10V isn't known for being tough especially compared to other tough steels BUT it IS known for how long it will hold an edge. With that much Vanadium Carbides it is extremely wear resistant. I have a small pocket knife made from it and it stays sharp a very long time.
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I would say, its known for being tough, for being as wear resistant as it is. Probably the biggest advantage it has over some of the similar steels with that amount of wear resistance.

I still am planning to do rope tests, after I get a hold of some thick rope. If it holds it edge as long as it should, while holding up that well to chopping, and being hammered into a piece of wood, I would say this is a good ht.
 
I'm a big fan of using knives within the parameters of their design in order to determine whether they work or not. I designed a skinning knife in 2015, which was made brilliantly by Charles Vestal, and which I've never used for skinning an animal. Would it work? Maybe- there's only one way to find out, and I may never know one way or the other. Works ok in the kitchen, I know that much.

Batoning with a knife made for skinning animals tells you almost nothing that you need to know about that knife.

Many knife makers seem to focus almost exclusively on the attributes or brand of the steel itself, and don't pay enough attention to the more intangible things, like scope of use, balance, ergonomics, overall layout- ease of use etc.

Seriously, any idiot with a proper oven, some basic knowledge on how to use it, and a general understanding of all the various steels available to knife makers can end up with a hard and strong blade- even I can do that. Using a steel with high level abrasion resistance, for example, in a knife designed to take a lot of shock and kinetic energy- just to have that brand name association- is all too common and super dumb. Imo.

There is a lot known about the metallurgy of cutlery friendly steels so you can take a lot of guesswork out of the equation by choosing appropriately.

What separates really good makers- in my opinion- is integrity of design and the only way to test for that is to use knives for what they're designed to do. For as long as it takes to dial it in.
 
As the guys above said it depends on what the knife is designed for. So I'll give you my example. I make a lot of puukkos and they are mainly for cutting wood. So I sharpen the test knife as much as I can. Then test it how it cuts hair. Then I take a piece of dry firewood oak and I start carving it against the grain. Every now and then I check the shaving ability or if it's lost , the paper cutting ability. Sometimes I use bamboo too. Very subjective test, but I have something like a data base at this point and it gives me some info about the quality of the blade that I test.
 
Lorien said:
I'm a big fan of using knives within the parameters of their design in order to determine whether they work or not. I designed a skinning knife in 2015, which was made brilliantly by Charles Vestal, and which I've never used for skinning an animal. Would it work? Maybe- there's only one way to find out, and I may never know one way or the other. Works ok in the kitchen, I know that much.

Batoning with a knife made for skinning animals tells you almost nothing that you need to know about that knife.

Many knife makers seem to focus almost exclusively on the attributes or brand of the steel itself, and don't pay enough attention to the more intangible things, like scope of use, balance, ergonomics, overall layout- ease of use etc.

Seriously, any idiot with a proper oven, some basic knowledge on how to use it, and a general understanding of all the various steels available to knife makers can end up with a hard and strong blade- even I can do that. Using a steel with high level abrasion resistance, for example, in a knife designed to take a lot of shock and kinetic energy- just to have that brand name association- is all too common and super dumb. Imo.

There is a lot known about the metallurgy of cutlery friendly steels so you can take a lot of guesswork out of the equation by choosing appropriately.

What separates really good makers- in my opinion- is integrity of design and the only way to test for that is to use knives for what they're designed to do. For as long as it takes to dial it in.
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Its pretty easy to test the balance, of a knife. Ergonomics is a bit harder to test. Although I think doing rope cuts with give someone a good idea, and is definitely a good reason to do it the way Pete from cedric and ada tests a knife.

It's not a knife designed to take a lot of shock in anyway, it you're referring to this cpm 10v knife. I would say it's just designed for EDC or anything where cutting well is optimal. I just want to know if this thing is going to stand up to ABUSE if someone puts it through abuse. If I don't have a way to know what a blade is going to do in a situation, how could someone sell it, or hell even give it away, and have any kind of confidence.

I guess you can heat treat, and assume it worked out exactly how you wanted because you followed what should lead to a certain set of properties. I feel much better to see that a blade will be able to handle what the protocol says it should, at a given geometry.
 
I agree with the only good way to test a knife is actually use the knife until it needs to be sharpened, take it to the stones, and then repeat a few more times. I have also given knives away to people who I know are tool users to try out steels and reach back a few months later to hear their thoughts.

Last week I actually used someone else's test on one of my blades out of curiosity. This new maker on a different form was bragging about how well his thick canola quenched 1095 knife performed being beat through a piece of half inch copper tubing with wooden dowel stuffed inside pipe. His knife ended up taking some decent chipping but said it was good enough because of the abuse beyond actual use. Well to just to play his game I took a much thinner S45VN blank at 62.5 Rc and sharpened the same secondary bevel he had, no damage to my knife blank. Did this tell me anything about my knife, no, but it sure did open his eyes.
 
Seedy Lot said:
I agree with the only good way to test a knife is actually use the knife until it needs to be sharpened, take it to the stones, and then repeat a few more times. I have also given knives away to people who I know are tool users to try out steels and reach back a few months later to hear their thoughts.

Last week I actually used someone else's test on one of my blades out of curiosity. This new maker on a different form was bragging about how well his thick canola quenched 1095 knife performed being beat through a piece of half inch copper tubing with wooden dowel stuffed inside pipe. His knife ended up taking some decent chipping but said it was good enough because of the abuse beyond actual use. Well to just to play his game I took a much thinner S45VN blank at 62.5 Rc and sharpened the same secondary bevel he had, no damage to my knife blank. Did this tell me anything about my knife, no, but it sure did open his eyes.
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It would have told you your s45vn isn't up to what it could be if it had chipped, and gotten damaged.
 
I can say I did learn something from that test, with the 52100 blade I did in the forge. Because of the way it failed, it bent a little behind the edge. It didnt crack or chip. What I wanted to see for that particular knife, if it was to fail is a chip or something similar, or no failure at all would be great too. Basically it wasn't hard enough, and confirmed that my forge heat treat before I made the kiln wasn't good enough.
 
Blankblank said:
It would have told you your s45vn isn't up to what it could be if it had chipped, and gotten damaged.
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No I would of said it is a silly test and when am I ever going to baton through copper tubing with a lower toughness knife steel.

Twin to the S45VN blank I made a knife that I gifted to an Aussie friend for testing. After he got done with 15 days of remote bicycle touring with a family of 3 he returned to Australia and went out and harvested a Sambar which is an elk sized deer. Used the S45VN knife for all of it and had rave reviews. Real life means a lot more than test to me.
 
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