We have enough 20CV...

Chronovore

Chronovore

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Messages
11,229
Hey. I'm a big fan of WE but I feel like I have enough of their 20CV in my life. There have been questions about the heat treatment versus Spyderco or more premium knives coming out of America or Russia. It offers plenty of edge retention for my relatively light EDC needs but I'm always happy to see improvement. In this case though, I think I'd rather see a switch to something else. (I have similar issues with S35VN so no, not that.)

From what I understand, newer steels like S45VN and MagnaCut are not readily available in China yet. Any ideas when that might change?

I've seen some Chinese companies using Elmax. Can WE get Elmax and how well could it be heat treated?
 
I've had similar questions from my customers......

While I haven't directly asked our WE sales rep, I expect they got a good deal on 20CV and are trying to use up the amount they purchased. What I have questioned them on is their HRC and heat treatment - as many customers think it's too low since 20CV is a copy of M390. The answer was they are following Crucible's recommendations and when you look at Crucible's 20CV PDF file that bears it out. In my opinion it should be 61-62HRC but there it is. My customers want to see a mix of steels from WE KNIFE too.

I don't think anyone knows when MagnaCut will be available in China - yet. If I was at Crucible I would want to let my Western customers have it exclusively as long as possible. Which appears to be what's happening....

Reate were using ELMAX for the EXO all the way up until October 2022 and that's a lot of knives - well up in the thousands. Now Reate have had to switch to 3V steel because when I asked David Deng, ELMAX was in short supply for our custom EXO run. I also asked for 20CV and M390 and got the same answer. I can only take him at his word.
 
Chronovore said:
From what I understand, newer steels like S45VN and MagnaCut are not readily available in China yet. Any ideas when that might change?
Click to expand...

True Talon said:
I don't think anyone knows when MagnaCut will be available in China - yet. If I was at Crucible I would want to let my Western customers have it exclusively as long as possible. Which appears to be what's happening....
Click to expand...


This is EXACTLY what's happening. WE Knife has been told directly that Crucible/Niagara's policy is NOT to sell Magnacut or any of their other newly released supersteels to CHINESE companies for several years. They, however, have sold Magnacut to Lionsteel, an Italian company. 🤨

Their product, their choice. ☹️

WE Knife has been a loyal customer of Crucible/Niagara and continues to use 20CV & S35VN in its products. The company will always do everything it can to provide its customers the best products possible.
 
Jim O'Young said:
This is EXACTLY what's happening. WE Knife has been told directly that Crucible/Niagara's policy is NOT to sell Magnacut or any of their other newly released supersteels to CHINESE companies for several years. They, however, have sold Magnacut to Lionsteel, an Italian company. 🤨

Their product, their choice. ☹️

WE Knife has been a loyal customer of Crucible/Niagara and continues to use 20CV & S35VN in its products. The company will always do everything it can to provide its customers the best products possible.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info Jim.

It does seem a contradiction to let dodgy Lionsteel have it and not WE KNIFE.

I would like to see MagnaCut on Reate, Liong Mah and WE Knives too for some variety. I guess we will just have to wait.
 
Jim O'Young said:
This is EXACTLY what's happening. WE Knife has been told directly that Crucible/Niagara's policy is NOT to sell Magnacut or any of their other newly released supersteels to CHINESE companies for several years. They, however, have sold Magnacut to Lionsteel, an Italian company. 🤨

Their product, their choice. ☹️

WE Knife has been a loyal customer of Crucible/Niagara and continues to use 20CV & S35VN in its products. The company will always do everything it can to provide its customers the best products possible.
Click to expand...

That's a shame. Look, I'm sympathetic to American manufacturing. American manufacturers do face burdens and the fact that Chinese manufacturers can deliver quality products at better prices despite having to ship them halfway around the world can be frustrating. Unfortunately, a lot of the reasons we have that situation in the first place are political and properly discussing them means doing so in the political forum. Beyond that, I'm not sure how much of a help it really is to voluntarily withhold these new steels.

At the very least, why not release S45VN? It seems to have been largely overshadowed by MagnaCut in the States but it remains an exciting new steel. Granting Chinese manufacturers access to S45VN would allow market evolution, offer something new to consumers, and still keep something back for the intended protection via MagnaCut.

In the meantime, maybe it's time for the Chinese to develop their own cutting-edge super steels?
 
Chronovore said:
At the very least, why not release S45VN? It seems to have been largely overshadowed by MagnaCut in the States but it remains an exciting new steel. Granting Chinese manufacturers access to S45VN would allow market evolution, offer something new to consumers, and still keep something back for the intended protection via MagnaCut.
Click to expand...
True Talon said:
It does seem a contradiction to let dodgy Lionsteel have it and not WE KNIFE.
Click to expand...

Again, their product, their choice. 😕

WE would absolutely love to offer knives using Magnacut or S45VN, but no matter how much I have pleaded on WE's behalf (with the hopes of releasing a Magnacut Synergy), the Niagara/Crucible policy is extremely rigid. I'm sure I'll probably be told the same (but hoping that there could be some movement 🤞🙏) when I drop by their booth at SHOT Show next week...

WE/Civivi/Sencut will always be investigating & evaluating the newest, highest performance materials available as part of its efforts to provide its customers the best products possible.
 
Last edited:
Jim O'Young said:
Again, their product, their choice. 😕

No matter how much as I have pleaded on WE's behalf (with the hopes of releasing a Magnacut Synergy), their policy is extremely rigid. I'm sure I'll be told the same (but hoping that there could be some movement 🤞🙏) when I drop by the Niagara/Crucible booth at SHOT Show next week...
Click to expand...

I don't know if they have anyone here but feel free to send them a link to this thread.
 
elde66 said:
Still like to know the verified HRC on 20CV!
(I have more than a few of these.)
Click to expand...
The only HRC test I've seen recently was on a Subjugator that tested at 60.5 HRC. WE's stated HRC on that knife is 59-61 HRC.

Our sales rep sent me part of an email from Crucible where they stated -

''In-regards to the CPM 20-CV, I think it really depends on what you what to accomplish. Looking at the datasheet, I would think a hardness of 58 to 60 would be ideal''
 
I spoke to the Niagara/Crucible sales team at SHOT. They reiterated that Magnacut and their other new supersteels will NOT be available to Chinese knife companies for the next few years. This was a joint decision between the two companies and there is NOTHING WE, or any Chinese company can do about it.

It is what it is... :confused:
 
I am curious to this..

Why wouldnt they want to sell their product line? Is it about the ability to control distribution or is it more of "hey WE buy a whole master and then we'll talk." Sort of thing?

WE could always go the lockheed route of they wanted it bad enough....

I think a WE in nitrobe 77... Would be cooler..
 
I’m very happy with WE’s 20CV with a published hardness of 58-60 HRC. While 20CV is not as corrosion resistant as MagnaCut it’s an ideal stainless steel for small EDC folders where you get very good corrosion resistant and edge retention while giving up on toughness.

3fRmcgi_d.webp



Chart by Larrin: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10...ness-edge-retention-and-corrosion-resistance/
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top