Weapons

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Having worked as a State Social Worker investigating child, elder, and institutional abuse, neglect, and exploitation...

And during a thousand hour internship with Adult Parole and Probation having toured the State's Death Chamber as well as it's maximum, minimum, and psychiatric facilities...

I believe I'll withold comment other than saying my driver's license has to be renewed in 2006, and my carry license in 2007.

I like people, especially those who've found a home here on the HI forum.

I also believe there are people who need to be kept behind bars but haven't yet been put there. I moved to the sticks after realizing some of the 30 folks I'd sent back to prison as a hearing officer were probably starting to get out.
 
"The gun is truly the great equalizer. I fear no man or beast while armed. Perhaps the fear is irrational. Perhaps not. But I FEEL safe knowing I can kill those that would take from me or my family."

In the three instances in which I had guns (or in one instance, an AR-15) pulled on me, a gun would not have benefitted me one bit, it would have escalatesd the situation (must admit my wife and daughter were not present, so perhaps I felt less threatened or protective). The scariest of the three was a drunk getting out at the gas station we were at and waving a gun at us, spouting gibberish and drool.

But these were just my own exp.s, and there was one other confrontation that if I had a gun, I would have used it--and regretted it.

I must admit I never much joined the cult of the gun. Like any good rurally raised boy, I of course have the "American Trifecta": one shotgun, one pistol, and one high power hunting rifle. I have the carry permit fer the .45, but I am much more likely these days to take the ASP collapsible baton along instead, or nothing but my wits.

"I FEEL safe knowing I can kill"--I will think carefully on this.

As Semp says, the gun is the great EQ. Using the above statement and this one, one could deduce that others as well may feel safe knowing that they can kill. with that mindset, is sociey is a bunch of homicidal types held in check by a "holier than thou" Ego-trip:)? Also, does one's feeling of safety leave when the last bullet is fired? When the weapon is knocked away? Will a gun make one feel safe if a bomb is detonanted in their vicinity? The cult of the gun would make guns the security blanket of the new millennium, I don't know if I like that. (P.S. I'm not an anti-gun nut, really)

I'm jest spoutin crap here, not pointing fingers, just enjoying a very fruitful and diverse discussion.


Keith
 
Good discussion. I never really think of a khukuri as a weapon. I mean I guess they could be, but most of the discussion here is from a more utilitarian angle.

I also agree with what Munk said. I have had people show up at my door at night broken down and wanted a ride home. I have given them one cause I can stick a 9mm in my pocket before I go so I feel safer to help also.

I like flowers and animals and nature and wildlife too. I don't think liking guns or knives keeps you from appreciating the other good things in life.
 
You make your decisions, Ferrous, and live by them. That's good.

The 'Cult of the Gun" did not send me a membership card. The first gun I owned was at age 31. I did not grow up with guns but grew to them.

Yes, good equipment will not make up for lack of wit. But wit needs hands and sometimes instruments to carry out will.

I don't think of my khuks as weapons first. The second or third item on the list is 'weapon'. But if I did think of them as weapons foremost it would not change my behavior. I have my anecdotal stories as well, in two of them I was armed or could be armed in an instant, and in both used my wits so I did not have to use a gun.

But make no doubt about what I will do if that comes.

There are people who think a gun or weapon limits choice, and perhaps for them it does. There are people for whom weapons expand freedom and choice. Not to be reckless, but to be good.

<<<<I FEEL safe knowing I can kill"--I will think carefully on this.
As Semp says, the gun is the great EQ. Using the above statement and this one, one could deduce that others as well may feel safe knowing that they can kill. with that mindset, is sociey is a bunch of homicidal types held in check by a "holier than thou" Ego-trip >>>>>
--Ferrous

This is silliness, Ferrous. High gun ownership areas of our nation are safer than restricted areas. If you really think we're just a whisper away from mass genocide surely the firearm would have tipped us over by now?

It would be as if an outsider was inspecting your home and decided your khuks were much too dangerous for you to own based upon their conjecture of your state of mind because you had them in the first place!

You admire mysticim and the Tao. Here's a paradox right in front of you and you blink. Semper fi has it right. The weapon means we do not have to kill. It gives us the freedom to find peace if it can be found, and if it can't, to save ourselves and our loved ones.

sorry for the long post. I'll shut up now. Good thread.


munk
 
The cult of the gun. What do I mean? Well, I'm talking about people infatuated with the idea of the gun, without understanding it as a machine and uderstanding safe operating prinnciples.

In PA when I was a lad, it was required that you take and pass a hunter's safety course, which involved shooting, range discipline, safe gun carry and a whole slew of good info. Stuff anyone and everyone should have a basic knowledge of. Guns are as common as computers or cars, there's 1-3 in most every american home! Shouldn't this gun knowledge be mandatory? (You need a License to drive a car, right?)

When that mother of a child keeps a loaded handgun in her purse, laying about where children have access, what is the excuse she gives the judge, when her child accidentally murders another child (because the only 'gun safety' or gun exposure they have comes from TV and movies)? Would she keep an equally deadly venomous snake without knowing something about how to handle such an animal safely?

I know a guy here in Indy who is a friend of a friend. He got a 9mm because he thought it was cool. He was showing it off to some girls while drunk, and he shot himself in the calf lengthwise. His leg swelled up so bad they had to cut it in places to drain the fluids that were building up. What if he'd hit a major artery or organ, in himself or the girls? What if they were the ones fingering the loaded gun? Could not safe gun practices and respect for the tool have prevented this situation?

These heedless ones are the members of the cult of the gun. They have no respect for the tool, only the fear it illicits, the feeling of power it brings, the respect it commands, etc.

Guns cannot compensate for shortcomings within the self. In this age where there are medecines to treat symptoms and not the sickness, where we look outside the self for healing instead of within, all too often the gun becomes yet another bandage for the bruised ego.

Food fer thot.

Keith
 
<One might note that the prominent flag of dissent has been raised by one who often just seems to be contrary for contrariness' sake, and who has lately been accused- with some reason- of being a troll.>


Keith, as cold as it sounds, some people are too stupid to live. They are quite capable of finishing themselves off without a firearm, TVM. The state with the least violent crime (Vermont) is the same one that has had the most liberal handguns carry policy the longest...recently joined by Alaska. This, despite proximity of Vermont to the extremely high crime New Jersey.

Just as with illegal drugs, alcohol, or virtually anything else, people can hurt themselves with anything. If you're self-destructive enough, your implement of choice matters little. Pretending otherwise is mere sophistry.

John
 
Well, dammit, Thomas, what would YOU say of someone who seems to mostly pop up to create dissent? What advice would you give in how to deal with such a one? DFTT?
 
WV has the lowest crime rate in the nation, but some of the most liberal firearms laws.

I agree with the 'cult of the gun' thing though. When I was a kid almost all the "Badass" looking guns were military surplus. Now there's this whole industry making these assault type guns for consumers. I dont'think they should be banned, but it does give you pause for thought that the less utilitarian guns are selling more than sporting arms. I think it started with Dirty Harry and his .44. After that movie everybody had to have a .44. The price for them went thru the ceiling.

I think a lot of the demand for the bad looking but impractical guns stems from the fact that society is so urbanized and hunters are dying out.
 
Well, yes. did the smiley face tip ye off?

Look folks, I am playing a bit of Loki's advocate here.

I'm jest sayin that "gun safety" does not mean feeing safe cause you can waste somebody if ya need to. I've saved two lives since I bought me last gun, and I think I may have lost the will to take one just because I feel a little threatened.

There is a great and advanced MA technique called simply "The art of Applied Cowardice." It is perhaps the most difficult martial discipline of all. It is truly the art of fighting without fighting. This, along with subterfuge and cunning, misdirection as well, and there are few situations one can't peaceably extracate one's self from.

In the instances when the guns were pulled on me, it was words and reason that got me thru. Had I had firepower, ther'ed have been a gunbattle at a busy gas station, or in the woods, miles from a hospital. I mean, if a guy's pointing the gun at you, are you gonna wager yer quick draw abilities against his trigger pull? I had better control of the situation because the gun having guy thot he was clearly in control, putting me an a position that is non-threatening to him. (in 2 instances, I was within reach of the guns at a few points in time, andif things escalated it seemed that I could make an attempt to gain control of the weapn, or make a hasty retreat.) These folks were not assassins, just idiots with weapons.
 
Keith,

One's mind, and a pure heart, are always the best defense. No question. However, I would prefer to have these things, AND the option of a weapon, especially if anyone's safety besides my own is in question. I suppose I find it easier to be cavalier with my own life, but how could I be selfish with the lives of my family or friends?

John
 
What the hel does that mean?

Peace thru superior firepower is an endless race, making an end to ours. Mao Tse Tung said that Peace is issued from the barrel of a gun.

I think what you mean to say (perhaps) is that the weapon means we have the option not to kill. Yet the presence of the weapon designed to kill denotes one's final intent in the matter--to kill if 'need be.' I doubt it would be well received if you go to a crowded mall and say, "hey, I don't have to kill anybody with this gun" or Hey, I choose not to use this here gun."

Thassit, I'm gonna trade me guns fer class IIIa bodyarmor and a riot shield. Guns don't protect people from guns, but Body Armor does.
 
Let's take some time out around here to calm down and remember this is the HI forum, where we treat each other with respect and leave others their dignity.

If you want to smoke something, send some incense up for those who are weary unto - death? ( But death will not come. )

For those who are hurting.

For those watching others precious to their hearts in anguish.

We've had a troll upset us, and he seems to be gone for now. If you let him goad you into reaction, even after he's gone then he wins.

Afford each other consideration as well as lovingkindness and mercy. The Golden Rule, the Diamond Sutra, whatever.

It's beneath us to act the way we appear to be headed.
 
I note munk uses overstatement to make a point, I use understatement to make a point. Add our opposing views to the mix, and we're Yin and Yang here.:)

Thanks, all, fer contributing. Apologies if any were offended. Thanks Yerik.

Keith
 
Dang it, now I'm the guy jumping to unwarranted assumptions!

Don't mind me, my mind went to lunch today and took the rest of the day off.;)
 
You haven't offended me. There is a guy who lands, stirs the pot, enjoys the effect, and goes wherever such go afterwards. He has also said some incredible tasteless remarks. You are not he. You are someone I disagree with about some issues, but contribute mightily to this forum, bringing lore and study of the past to the table. (And you forget I've seen your picture...just a big lovable goof butt, reminds me of when I was in college, sniff...)

I don't think you know where you're really going with this, though, or how much control you really want to give a socialist nanny state over your activities. Frankly, I can't trust you with your khuks until you've taken a khuk safety course. I'd like you to take a free speech safety course too- not that it's required by the Bill of Rights, just because it seems like such a good idea.
I'm a little concerned you've joined the Cult of the Blade, and you'll have to be examined.

Under the concerns you've raised about misuse of firearms, all of us here with our khuk collections should be scrutinized by the Government.

Ferrous, with freedom comes responsibility and sometimes awful abuses. That's part of it.

There are certainly members who agree with you more than I, you know.

Don't stop speaking your mind here.

take care,
munk
 
:)

Watch it munk. You'll be my hero, soon. :D

(btw, the answer would be "under the bridge". What do I win?)
 
From the ninjutsu point of view, I recommend you throw away concepts of strong and weak.
Perhaps simply recognizing that there are dangerous places and dangerous situations is enough.
I have trained with dozens of women who have sliced my throat with plastic training knives in the dojo.
I am much bigger and stronger than they.

As an Anthropologist, I have to say that advanced tool manufacture and use is part of that higher intelligence level that makes us humans, and not just bipedal apes.
Our first tools were basically shattered stones with sharp edges. (knives)
The guy with the better knife was better able to provide food, clothing, shelter, defense, etc.. for his offspring and they were better able to reproduce.
So, natural selection favors the monkey with the Gelbu Special over the monkey with the Jason Jacobs custom bowie.

The khukuri is a weapon. It came from the battlefield but has been used as a tool.
Many weapons started out as tools, but the khukuri is a reverse exception.

My opinion on guns:
I think every man should own one good high velocity rifle with a scope. It could serve for defense of home or hunting, etc.

As to violence, well, Japan has a crime rate (including violent crime) that is on the rise and will soon be higher than that in America.
Japan outlawed private firearms ownership a long time ago. They are managing to rape, rob and murder without guns quite well.

You have to have a moral society, it says alot about Americans that they have maintained a stable democracy for 228 years while maintaing the right to keep and bear arms.
Japanese had to be disarmed and brainwashed to be like they are now, and they still have managed to duplicate the violent crime rate in the US.
Soon, they will be worse.

guns or no guns. Think about that.
 
Japan outlawed private firearms ownership a long time ago. They are managing to rape, rob and murder without guns quite well
Click to expand...
Yes, and I believe a similar law was put into effect in the UK? and the crime rate went thru the roof as well...

Must ease a criminals mind a bit
knowing a person in their home,
or on the other side of the door,
for that matter doesn't have a firearm...;)
 
A brief explanation of a viewpoint from across the pond. The way I see it over here we don't need firearms for self defense, and even blades are a bad idea. Over here very few of the people who are going to attack you have guns, at most they will have a knife and even that isn't particularly likely. This is at least in part due to the fact that our gun culture didn't evolve in the same way it did over there but as I see it, criminals started carrying knives because members of the public carried them for self defense. If you increase the number of people who carry a firearm for self defense, you increase the chances that the criminals will. That is just in the UK though, and when it comes down to it despite all the lisencing laws and so on it is fairly easy to get hold of a firearm, but for some reason your common-or-garden variety mugger doesn't bother.

Anyhow, thats just my way of looking at it.
 
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