Welding handles on billets or forgings?

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Jul 14, 2010
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When making damascus or forging blades, I prefer welding on a handle instead of tongs. The issue is often that the butt weld often fails. One reason for this, I believe is that I only had a 120v mig welder. I picked up a 220 Miller AC/DC Thunderbolt. What type and size of electrode and electrical amp setting would produce the best weld for this type of joint? Also any tips on making this a better weld. I already bevel the handle to be welded but anything else would be appreciated.

Thanks
John
 
I have the same welder. I use 3/32 6013 rods for thin stock, and 1/8" for thocker stock, as they are shallow, and build a nice fillet. I play with scrap until I get the weld I want. I am terrible for writing things down so I am little help there. I find the higher end of the range on the box of rods tends to work better for me than the lower end. A auto darkening helmet, with adjustable contrast is critical for me. If I can't see what I'm doingh, I can't weld. I found 7018 rods failed on me when forging the stock, probably because I have limited skill in welding, not any fault of the weld. I can get my best amateur welds with 6013. :thumbup:

Check this out: I ordered his DVDs and they helped me immensely:

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/
 
When welding on a damascus billet I like to run two beads along the end and then weld the handle between the two. This area of the billet gets lost anyway so a little deeper burn does not hurt. I like the 6013's as well for this kind of work.
 
If you're metal isn't clean you aren't going to get good 7018 welds. 6013 is super easy to weld, but 6011 is easy too. If you want to learn to weld, grab some 1/8" 6011 and practice laying beads. Watch the puddle, not the rod. Auto darkening is nice, but definitely not necessary. Let me find a chart for you on amperage settings.
 
Ah yes, here it is. Print this out and keep it somewhere handy.

IMAGE_1000001255.PNG


Also, 6010/6011 is deep penetrating compared to 6013 med penetrating. 6010 is a blast to run.
 
If you're just starting on stick welding, try 3/32 7014



Auto dark helmets are helpful




Start by grinding clean shiny metal

I'm always surprised by folks that want to weld through paint grease rust and scale, then are disappointed with poor results.
 
I am not completely new to stick, I have a small thermal arc 95 amp machine that I also have messed around with scratch start tig. I have five pounds of 1/8 6011, as per the guy at the welding shop. Should I get larger diameter to run as hot as possible or go a different route? I am really try to get a joint that will not break off with heavy forging. There is nothing fun about hot steel flying through the air when a weld lets go under the power hammer. I really appreciate the input.
 
I am not completely new to stick, I have a small thermal arc 95 amp machine that I also have messed around with scratch start tig. I have five pounds of 1/8 6011, as per the guy at the welding shop. Should I get larger diameter to run as hot as possible or go a different route? I am really try to get a joint that will not break off with heavy forging. There is nothing fun about hot steel flying through the air when a weld lets go under the power hammer. I really appreciate the input.

Larger rod isn't necessarily the answer, @ 95 amps I run 3/32 6011 and find it to be optimal for solid penetrating welds... For welding billets go with medium/shallow penetrating rods; 7018 or 6013... I'd also have a look at 7014 because it's ideal for poor fit up and lays a nice bead...
 
While it's good to use correct rod and amperage, when welding things like rebar and high carbon it's good to preheat the stock a little if welding onto something like a big bearing, and always to post-heat the weldment. When sticking a handle to a billet, I bevel the rebar end a little so it's clean and there is room for full penetration, and when done welding, I brush the flux off and immediately put in in the forge if that's running already, or at least anneal the weld a bit with a torch. Otherwise the high carbon stuff and even parts of the rebar may air harden and micro-crack to some extent. You will have observed this if you've ever welded on a handle or billet ends, then had the welds crack at room temp with no impact.

You'll want to direct the rod a bit more at the thicker side of the weld (the billet end) making sure that both sides of the joint are wetted thoroughly by the weld pool while you go. When using a smooth arcing but lowish penetration rod like 6013, again, beveling the rebar well is your friend and will get you a more fully welded joint. Sometimes I'll do a root pass, then a cover pass too to increase the fillet strength. As far as erring on the side of judgement, it's better to weld hot and get deep penetration with a little undercutting than to weld cold and get a tall bead without much integrity at the core. Ideally you'll find the point of balance between the two, based on your machine (each machine will run just a bit differently in terms of actual performance at a given amperage setting.)

They still come off sometimes, but at that point I just clamp it in the post vise and re-weld while everything is still at a red heat, and keep going.
 
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