Welding hardened 440C

Joined
Apr 11, 2000
Messages
120
I am working on big combat tanto made from 1/4" 440C. It was to have an integral guard but I had a brain fart and made the guard way to small. I was thinking of fabricating a guard out of the same stock and welding it on. The guard would be annealed, the blade hard. Is this feasible? If so, what kind of welder should I use? TIA.

Hugh

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Scraped, burnt, sliced, smashed. AHHHH, knifemaking!!!!
 
I bought a little wire feed welder from Walmart that welds stainless fine. Just cost $99.

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Take care!! Michael

Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!
http://www.nebsnow.com/L6steel
Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms!!!
 
Thanks George and Michael. I think I know what i'll ask Santa for xmas!

Hugh

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Scraped, burnt, sliced, smashed. AHHHH, knifemaking!!!!
 
Welding on hardened steel is not a good thing.
The weld area will of course be heated above the critical temperature. While the heat affected zone ( blue area) will still be hardened this sets up tremendous stress's in this area. It will probably crack.

It would be better to anneal and weld with the proper filler rod for 440c and then harden the entire thing.

Solder may be a better alternative.

Not all stainless fillers will work with all stainless mixes.

For example 308 filler metal is used when joining tweo pieces of 304 ss, 309 filller must be used when joining 304 ss to mild carbon steel.

Thin wire like pieces can be cut from the 440c and used as filler wire with a TIG setup.




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Sola Fide
 
Hmmmmm, what to do, what to do? My handle is exactly 1 inch deep. I was aware that welding soft to hard steel may cause problems so I had thought I had thought that I would get my welder to only do about a 1/8" to 1/4" weld on both sides of the guard on the handle side only so I could hide it within the handle. This would leave approximately 1/4" of unaffected steel on the top and bottom of the handle. Do you guy's still feel this could cause my handle to crack?

Hugh

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Scraped, burnt, sliced, smashed. AHHHH, knifemaking!!!!
 
Howdy There......!
Can you pin the guard on and then solder around it to make it look like it is one piece..? Good Luck, I do know that I won't weld on a harden piece.
eek.gif

Later "Possum"

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Thomas Clegg
 
Any welding on the hardened steel will cause problems, the welding process has to take the material to the melting stage of the material, say approximately 2600, 2700 degrees, this makes for a big change in the molecular structure of the steel, in affect you are wiping out a small portion of the heat treat, while the structure of the steel next to the weld area is still hard.
So we have hardened, and untempered steel and hardened, and tempered steel, plus large grain growth in the welded area, all this is taking place in the .00's of an inch.

When I used to do fit up work on tanks and boilers we would make fit up bars by sharpening an old piece of heavy leaf spring.

Some guys would weld handles of pipe on the end of theirs, it would always break, maybe not right away but it would break.

If the spring had been annealed, welded, annealed and then hardened..........

Remember, to leave the weld a bit proud, or full so you have enough metal to make a nice radius also.

Welding the guard and then grinding/filing a square corner in it would put a lot of stress on the weld.

Welds like to be smooth and radiused.

For example, turbine blades, aircraft and pressure vessell welds, must have no sharp corners, this according to Code.

Stress on a hard use knife should come under the same guidlines, no square corners on blade/tang junctions also.

my 2

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Sola Fide
 
Hey, I was reading through my copy of Wayne Goddard's book. The part about welding guards, gives a recomendation from Crucible Specialty Metals on welding or brazing 154-CM he said it should work the same for ATS-34 and 440C as follows.
Welding or brazing should be done in the anealed condition whenever possible. Welding in the "heat treated" condition results in poor weldability and requires careful preheating and post heating at just below the tempering temperature. Welding rod of austentic(non hardenable) stainless steel may be used if the weld doesn't need to be hard or abrasive resistant.

Hope this helps , Mike

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Sola Fide
 
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