Welding temperature

M

MKustom

Joined
Mar 6, 2007
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56
I have completed a small propane fired forge and have been having great luck forging, but the temps only seem to get up to about 2150 degrees and I am having some problems welding. I set it up venturi. what i am wondering is what is the minimum welding temperature for forge welding. sorry for the beginner questions, but I could use a little help. Thanks:)
 
At that temp there should be welding taking place. I would make sure my forge atmosphere is "reducing". I do welding at 2300, but know people work at 2200 frequently. Are you certain of other conditions (steels, atmosphere, proper fluxing)?

Added: I should amend this slightly. I keep my forge at 2300. I flux with 20 Mule team Borax. When it is bubbling vigorously, I do the welding. The billet probably doesn't reach the full 2300.
 
There are many variables involved with welding temps. What type of steel are you using to what altitude are you working at? The higher the carbon content the lower the temp has to be. Like Fitzo said make sure you have a reducing atmosphere. You should have some feathery flames coming out the front of the forge. Not too many but some. Flux can be very important and making sure it is applied at the right time can make a big difference. Bring your billet up to red then flux. Then put it back in to the forge and let it soak until it is at least the same color as the inside of the forge. Many makers (me included) recommend at least another 10-20 minutes of soak time.especially for the first and the last welds. I recomend a temp if around 2250F if possible and higher. You may need to adjust your set up to get the heat you need. Keep looking on the forums and you will learn a lot.

Chuck
 
I have welded a lot of 1080 & 15N20 at 2150 degrees but I do feel it is on the low side unless you have the tooling (hammer or press) that will weld the entire billet in one push because the heat will fall off rapidly out of the forge. I prefer to weld at 23-2400.
 
I usually weld at about 2300 degrees. However, when I weld up a can (by plating the sides and ends of my stack of 1084/15N20 with 1084) I get good welds at 2000 degrees or even lower. I drill a 1/8" hole in one end plate and weld my handle onto the other end plate. I fill the can with WD40, by squirting it in the pin hole until it's full. The WD40 becomes carbon when it burns and excludes the oxygen. I only need the borax when I fold on later welds.
 
Timken Co has some data in their book .Max recommended welding temps - 5160 ,2150 F-- 52100, 2100 F -- 6150,2200 F . Reducing atmosphere, proper fluxing, working before it can cool off , will all help.
 
Is there any way for a charcoal forger to know when he is at the right temperature????
 
I forge weld 1084 - 15n20 at 2250, soak time, bubbling flux, proper flame along with clean metal are all important factors for good welds.

The tip that I was shown is to soak the billets until all the darker shadows along the billet disappear plus a few more minutes of soak time, the billet should be the same color from all angles before welding.

Anyway this works for me. I am sure there will be other good tips offered for your success.
 
I see by your profile you are an old knifemaker, but don't know how new you are to damascus.
It takes a good size heating chamber to weld. A small chamber won't do it well (or at all in many cases). The billet needs to be completely at weld heat before setting the weld. Many makers have a forge just for welding (and contamination by some elements ,like copper, can poison the atmosphere for welding purposes). A blown vertical forge is preferred by many.
Heat to around 1800 and apply borax/flux. Reheat , reflux. Heat to near welding heat, scrape and reflux. Bring to full welding heat where there are no dark stripes showing between layers. Make sure it soaks long enough for the center to be as hot as the sides. Take out and GENTLY set the weld with a 3# hammer. You are not forging out the billet here, just fusing the metal. Many bad welds come from too much hammer force. Reflux and reheat after setting the weld. Re-weld, repeat, turn it on the sides and set the welds from the side. If anything starts to open up or show a line, go back and reflux/re-weld until the billet is a solid piece of steel. ONLY when it is solid can you draw it out or hammer hard.Before drawing out you should forge the billet into a neat ,clean, straight sided bar of steel. If you cut corners and get sloppy, it will go in all directions. You can tell by the sound when the billet is welded up solid. The full welding heat is only needed to set the weld, drawing heats should be in the normal forging ranges. If you keep the billet above black heat at all times, you can fold and re-weld without grinding. The big tricks are fluxing, scraping and brushing away scale and excess flux, and keeping the billet at heat.
Stacy
 
Thanks for all of the great advice!! I will do some fine tuning and let you all know how my first billet out of the shop turns out!
 
I am new to damascus, the only billets I have produced are from a coule of Hammerins. I think I will take your advice and build a larger verticle forge. what is a good size?
 
My Forge is 18 inches long with a single burner.You can make one what evert length you want or need for the size billets you plan on welding,if you get very long you will want to add more burners (usually this is for ventury style forges)

Just email me about the DVD beknives@avsia.com

Bruce
 
Fiddleback,
There is a magic to charcoal, Watch the colors of the flames after you
have placed your billet under a mound of charcoal and start pumping the air.
The flames will start off blue and progress to blue with orange flames to yellow to bright yellow white as the temp rises. Depending on the steel again welding temp starts when the blue flames stop.
 
Carcara said:
Fiddleback,
There is a magic to charcoal, Watch the colors of the flames after you
have placed your billet under a mound of charcoal and start pumping the air.
The flames will start off blue and progress to blue with orange flames to yellow to bright yellow white as the temp rises. Depending on the steel again welding temp starts when the blue flames stop.
Click to expand...

WOW!! Thanks!
 
how booed will i be if i try my 1st for welding in my charcoal forge? 5160 and
L6 i know its not the most favorable but its still used over seas and besides its all i got right now. no press or trip hammer either
 
I just finished this billet yesterday. I really ended up with a lot of scale. I keep it at welding heat through the entire welding/drawing process. Do you think I should actually turn the forge temp down while drawing or just let the steel heat to a lower temp? :jerkit:

PICT2164.jpg


PICT2167.jpg


The billet in the lower pic ended up being about 29" long, 1 1/4" wide and from 3/16 to a 1/4 thick approximately 243 layers not including what was lost to scaling. I had to cut the billet length because I used the horizontal forge, I guess I could have taken the bricks from the back and done it all in one piece, but,,,,,:confused:

I did all the work with the horizontal forge, I'm going to replace the vertical as I need a larger opening

Thanks for the input.
 
You only need/want welding temperatures to weld. Once welded, drawing is done at the higher end of the forging range. This will greatly reduce scale. Increase heat at each fold to welding heat.
Stacy
 
Stacey,

Let me ask this, would you want to leave the forge temp the same as welding temp and just take the steel out at the higher forging temp, or would you actually turn the forge temp down?
 
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