Well I’m not liking my first water stone

[BJE]

Picked up a sharp pebble 400/1000 off the net pretty cheap to try a water stone, I’m a good freehand sharpener with over a decade getting great results using nearly any oil stone, diamond, or ceramic, even coffee mugs and window edges, but so far I am hating this water stone.
It doesn’t cut as aggressively as I expected, maybe about the same as an India stone, but that’s not why I am frustrated.

I can get a burr after a lot of strokes, so I know I’m apexing and as stated I’m experienced with bench stones and freehanding, however after refining the burr the edge feels rounded over, no burr either side but edge isn’t crisp and doesn’t slice well. My technique is the same as I use for oil stones and diamond stones, wrist angle lock and everything except wetter lol.

Tried with a slurry, with minimal slurry, light pressure, and heavier pressure, just can’t get a finished edge on this thing. Tried different knives, same result, after this last attempt on an opinel paring knife and being dissatisfied with the final edge, I broke out an old Norton crystolon stone that’s far from flat and needed some attention, however a few mins with it and I’m left with a nice crisp edge with some tooth. Not even going finer than that Norton and I can get a better edge than the 400 or 1000 grit side of this water stone.

It harder for me to feel where the edge is contacting the stone with the water stone, the feedback is different than I’m used to and hard to discern if I’m riding the shoulder or flat on the bevel. However it’s also hard to feel that on diamond stones and I have no problems at all with those.

Is this stone just crap and not a representative of water stones, or do I really have to start my skills from scratch to learn these? I didn’t think it would be that different than using any other flat abrasive stone to sharpen with.

I have only had one other stone that acts similarly in results and feedback and it’s an arctic fox, just can’t ever get a good final edge with that thing even though I want so badly to like it. It also feels a bit frangible in use like the water stone, but doesn’t really shed much, yet the SiC Norton also breaks grit loose and no problems using that. Even still I can get a better edge off the fox than this sharp pebble.

Seems to me that I’m running the edge into the slurry and it’s dulling/rounding the apex while sharpening, yet many thousands or millions have used these types of stones and get results.

So do you more water stone experienced folks have any advice? Is it just that different a learning curve from other benchstones and I need to keep at it, or is this stone the cause of my frustration and should be ditched before I swear off water stones forever?

I tried edge leading and following strokes until I go to the final passes to minimize burrs, then edge leading with light pressure, I have also tried edge trailing in a stropping motion for final strokes and neither gave satisfactory results. I know it must just be me, as a rock is a rock and will work, but I can’t figure out why it would be any different technique wise than what I have been doing for years.

I have walked away from it for several days to reset after my first attempt so as not to get discouraged, sometimes have bad days like that, but this wasn’t my ne of them as I went straight to my old beat up stone and using exact same technique got a great edge off it in a fraction of the time. What gives?

 

[Mr.Wizard]

Is this stone just crap

Yes.

 

[BJE]

Yes.

I knew it was a cheapy, but seemed well made, I have certainly gotten better results off even cheaper and crappier hardware store generic stones before. I’m reluctant to spend money on a better water stone if I will just end up hating it as well, but if you folks think that a better stone will make the difference I just might and probably will try one.

 

[Night Rider]

I honestly don't know why you boys feel the need to spend so much time and money using stones to only achieve a less than perfect symmetrical edge! I plundered with stones for years trying to perfect the "Art" of stone sharpening and stropping only achieve an OK edge until I picked up a KME jig with diamond files and Micron film and now any knife I sharpen comes out 100% symmetrical at the exact bevel I choose and if I spend an 45 minutes running the Micron films I have a hair splitting mirror polished blade every time. Life is too short to waste time, Try a KME jig system. BTW I do not work for KME, I just spread the good word.

 

[Old Biker]

I knew it was a cheapy, but seemed well made, I have certainly gotten better results off even cheaper and crappier hardware store generic stones before. I’m reluctant to spend money on a better water stone if I will just end up hating it as well, but if you folks think that a better stone will make the difference I just might and probably will try one.

If it's not broke, why fix it. If you have other stones that are working well for you, why mess with a water stone? I have nothing against water stones, but if oil stones and diamond stones are working well for you, why change?

O.B.

 

[jeronimo]

I was just watching this video, yesterday, where this same "brand" of stones is discussed.
He's using the Sharp Pebble 1000/6000 grit stone in the video.
Most of the relevant info is in the first 7 minutes of the video, for brevity's sake.

I did a lot of research before buying waterstones, 5-6 years ago, and ended up buying a set of the Shapton Pro stones.
I've been really happy with the edges I can get on my kitchen knives with them, but that's all I use them for.

 

[annr]

If it's not broke, why fix it. If you have other stones that are working well for you, why mess with a water stone? I have nothing against water stones, but if oil stones and diamond stones are working well for you, why change?

O.B.

This is what happened to me and my teacher—veteran knife users of 40–50 years. With our steels and application, the waterstone was too much hassle and no improvement, maybe worse all things considered.

Along with the traditional abrasives, I like the sandpaper options. If I want the best edge I can get I will take it from 320/660 up to 60K. Mirror finish that lasts a long time.

 

[BJE]

If it's not broke, why fix it. If you have other stones that are working well for you, why mess with a water stone? I have nothing against water stones, but if oil stones and diamond stones are working well for you, why change?

O.B.

Because I’m a knife nut, it’s my hobby so I like to try different things to see if I like them, and to gain experiences.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I'm inclined to believe that so-called 'cheap' water stones probably aren't very good. I also bought an inexpensive one at a local restaurant supply company a year or two ago. Paid maybe $25 or so for it. It's a white/blue combo stone at 1000 grit (white side) and 3000 (blue). I was also underwhelmed with the crispness of the apex after fiddling with that one for awhile.

Having read a lot of posts here on BF over the years from some of the the experts here, it always seems to come down to how the slurry interacts with the apex and whether edge-leading passes are done for finishing steps, or if edge-trailing is better for the sake of not beating up the apex with the grit in the slurry. That's my impression anyway. At some point perhaps in the near future, I'm giving thought to trying a better-reputed brand of stone, like Shapton perhaps, to see how it may live up to expectations (or not).

I've also been perfectly happy with the other stones I've tried, with both DMT diamond hones and Norton's India being two of my overall favorites. For most of the knives I use, the Fine India has become a very faithful and consistent go-to stone for me. Easy to use with very good & very predictable results. That's also why I like the DMTs I've used - for exactly the same reason.

But, I still like to expand my horizons occasionally for the simple sake of learning something new. I can't really form a meaningful opinion about any of the other options out there, unless or until I've gone down that road myself. Some of the stones I use and love nowadays were, at one time, completely foreign to me and had me in doubt as to their usefulness or quality. But the answer finally came when things began to 'click' in my use of them and I realized it's all just part of the learning curve of sharpening.

Edited to add:
After writing the above reply, and only then looking back in the thread at the video posted earlier about the questionable marketing tactics of cheap stones, I couldn't help but notice my 'cheap' stone looks exactly like the one featured in that video. And watching him use that one, it seems to behave in exactly the same underwhelming way with lots of shed grit/mud and a disappointing finish. Guess I shouldn't be surprised at the results I got with mine.

 

[BJE]

Night Rider
That does look to be an excellent edge, I have guided systems, not the KME, they helped me greatly when I first started sharpening knives, never having anyone to teach me growing up, it was a great way to teach me what to look for. I rarely if ever use them now as I like being able to grab nearly any common abrasive to touch up my edges as needed.

I wouldn’t mind having a better guided system if they weren’t so expensive, but they would only be used at home and I doubt I would bother with the set up just for common touch ups. I don’t even use my sharpmaker anymore for similar reasons, and because I suppose I like sharpening freehand on a bench or pocket stone, it’s relaxing and rewarding when it works well, frustrating when it doesn’t lol.

 

[BJE]

I'm inclined to believe that so-called 'cheap' water stones probably aren't very good. I also bought an inexpensive one at a local restaurant supply company a year or two ago. Paid maybe $25 or so for it. It's a white/blue combo stone at 1000 grit (white side) and 3000 (blue). I was also underwhelmed with the crispness of the apex after fiddling with that one for awhile.

Having read a lot of posts here on BF over the years from some of the the experts here, it always seems to come down to how the slurry interacts with the apex and whether edge-leading passes are done for finishing steps, or if edge-trailing is better for the sake of not beating up the apex with the grit in the slurry. That's my impression anyway. At some point perhaps in the near future, I'm giving thought to trying a better-reputed brand of stone, like Shapton perhaps, to see how it may live up to expectations (or not).

I've also been perfectly happy with the other stones I've tried, with both DMT diamond hones and Norton's India being two of my overall favorites. For most of the knives I use, the Fine India has become a very faithful and consistent go-to stone for me. Easy to use with very good & very predictable results. That's also why I like the DMTs I've used - for exactly the same reason.

But, I still like to expand my horizons occasionally for the simple sake of learning something new. I can't really form a meaningful opinion about any of the other options out there, unless or until I've gone down that road myself. Some of the stones I use and love nowadays were, at one time, completely foreign to me and had me in doubt as to their usefulness or quality. But the answer finally came when things began to 'click' in my use of them and I realized it's all just part of the learning curve of sharpening.

Exactly, trying something new is fun sometimes and if I had never tried anything other than my old faithful standbys I would have missed out of pieces of kit I find very useful like the worksharp field sharpener, I love that thing and use it for everything when away from home.
When at home with all my kit, I also love the Norton India, it stays flat, is predictable, cuts decently fast, and leaves a crisp yet slightly toothy edge that’s great for edc and slicing meats in the kitchen. If I had to pick just one stone for life it would be that Norton India combo stone.

 

[Night Rider]

Night Rider
That does look to be an excellent edge, I have guided systems, not the KME, they helped me greatly when I first started sharpening knives, never having anyone to teach me growing up, it was a great way to teach me what to look for. I rarely if ever use them now as I like being able to grab nearly any common abrasive to touch up my edges as needed.

I wouldn’t mind having a better guided system if they weren’t so expensive, but they would only be used at home and I doubt I would bother with the set up just for common touch ups. I don’t even use my sharpmaker anymore for similar reasons, and because I suppose I like sharpening freehand on a bench or pocket stone, it’s relaxing and rewarding when it works well, frustrating when it doesn’t lol.

I completely understand the relaxing part And the frustrating part as well with stones having been only taught by my father with a two sided hardware store stone. My dad could turn any dull knife into a very useful Butter knife on that concaved stone Lol! Good luck and stay Sharp BJE

 

[Bill3152]

I been there and done that. I rather use sandpaper on a piece of flat wood than use some of those waterstones. Not that I like doing that but at least it will stay flat and not dish right in front of my eyes. I use dmts almost exclusively.

 

[garry3]

I have never heard anyone say anything positive about sharp pebbles. If it's a really muddy stone clean it off before the last few strokes and lighten up the pressure or even use it with water running across the surface over the sink would probably help, if you want to experiment.

 

[Wandering_About]

Throw the sharp pebble stone in the trash where it belongs and get a good stone. Shapton or Naniwa are excellent choices, as well as many others. I tend to prefer splash and go type stones, but there are good soaking stones too. There's a learning curve to water stones but if you enjoy the world of sharpening they can be fun.