Western vs Traditional Deba

T

timbit

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Jul 21, 2011
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I am looking for some input from some people that use Deba's on a regular basis.

My family eats a lot of Salmon (whole salmon, fresh caught) and chicken. I want a japanese style knife that will handle both chickens and salmon. I currently use my 12" gyuto to de-bone breasts and joint the wings, legs and thighs. I never actually cut through bone with my gyuto, as I don't feel like the edge could handle that kind of (ab)use. After breaking the chicken down, I find myself with a whole carcass. I cut the carcass in half using a crappy Cutco santuko (given to me as a wedding present) that I don't care about. The steel is soft enough that it doesn't chip out. I want a blade that is long enough to get nice clean cuts on the breast and strong enough to not chip out when I separate the breast bones from the back.

The steel is going to be VG-10 laminated stainless (maybe aogami super).

My question:

1) Would a western style Deba (two bevels) be more suitable to breaking down chicken, or would a single bevel Deba be able to stand up to this kind of use? I obviously would prefer the single bevel for breaking down Salmon, but if it won't hold up to chicken then i'll get the western style blade.

2) Is sharpening a single bevel blade difficult? Does anyone know of a good link to instructions on how to do it?

The blades I am considering are:
Shun Pro 8.25" Deba (single bevel, Japanese style D-handle)
Tojiro Western Style 240mm DP Deba (two bevel, western handle)
Tojiro Aogami Deba
Kai Wasabi Deba (Half the price of the other two, don't know if it is any good. Kai is owned by Kershaw)

Any feedback regarding which is better would be appreciated. They are both at approximately the same price point. I own and enjoy both Tojiro and Shun knives. I don't have a preference for either one of them.
 
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an excerpt from http://blog.japaneseknifeimports.com/2012/08/dispelling-myths.html

Myth- Deba is great for breaking down chicken

Truth- Deba is not at all ideal for this, nor is this the intended purpose of deba. The japanese have knives for breaking down chicken- Honesuki and Garasuki. Deba is a fish filleting knife. That is what it is made to do and that is what it does best. Between all of the professional sharpeners on here, i'm sure there are more than a few stories of debas that needed fixing because someone decided it would be a good idea to split a chicken in 2 with one.
 
bluntcut said:
an excerpt from http://blog.japaneseknifeimports.com/2012/08/dispelling-myths.html

Myth- Deba is great for breaking down chicken

Truth- Deba is not at all ideal for this, nor is this the intended purpose of deba. The japanese have knives for breaking down chicken- Honesuki and Garasuki. Deba is a fish filleting knife. That is what it is made to do and that is what it does best. Between all of the professional sharpeners on here, i'm sure there are more than a few stories of debas that needed fixing because someone decided it would be a good idea to split a chicken in 2 with one.
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That is interesting. I'm not trying to argue with you here, I am just trying to learn. I would think that a deba with two bevels would stand up to splitting a chicken better than the honesuki because the deba appears to have more metal behind the edge, when compared to honesuki.
 
timbit said:
That is interesting. I'm not trying to argue with you here, I am just trying to learn. I would think that a deba with two bevels would stand up to splitting a chicken better than the honesuki because the deba appears to have more metal behind the edge, when compared to honesuki.
Click to expand...

Jon Broida - the author of that blog - is knowledgable and will give better answer. In the meantime, IMO.

Deba geometry excels at straight cut (single bevel with hollow grind back). Honesuki narrow pointy helps get in tight spot and quite thick behind the edge + usually sub 160mm in lenght for better maneuverable.

In your case, perhaps use your 12" gyuto for boneless meat, buy a deba for fish and use/buy a western cleaver for bones.
 
So you're telling me a honesuki could split a chicken without damage to the edge? What would the japanese use to split a chicken carcass?
 
timbit said:
So you're telling me a honesuki could split a chicken without damage to the edge? What would the japanese use to split a chicken carcass?
Click to expand...

Yes, honesuki behind the edge is actually quite thick however a cleaver is the right tool for split apart chicken leg/thigh bone (getting into the marrow for soup/stew). You can sharpen 75mm/3inch of the honesuki heel more obtuse for hack through small bones. In a pinch, sometime I use gyuto spine to shatter/break chick leg/thigh bones.
 
I never actually split the long bones (drum sticks etc) for soup. I leave them whole. The only bones I need to cute are through the ribs and cartilaginous joints that join the front of the chicken and the back. I wouldn't actually use a deba to split marrow bones open.
 
timbit said:
I never actually split the long bones (drum sticks etc) for soup. I leave them whole. The only bones I need to cute are through the ribs and cartilaginous joints that join the front of the chicken and the back. I wouldn't actually use a deba to split marrow bones open.
Click to expand...

If that the case, a deba with obtuse bevel (or even a 1mm micro bevel would do too) around the heel would be fine for hacking today wimpy chicken rib+chest+back bones.
 
timbit said:
I never actually split the long bones (drum sticks etc) for soup. I leave them whole. The only bones I need to cute are through the ribs and cartilaginous joints that join the front of the chicken and the back. I wouldn't actually use a deba to split marrow bones open.
Click to expand...

I use a set of Tojiro kitchen shears for that task.
 
garasuki is a larger thincker honesuki and is used for some of those more rough boning tasks with chicken. Deba looks thick, but is pretty thin right behind the edge all things considered.
 
Honesuki is excellent for deboning and breaking down chickens into parts. Cutting through bones is best left to shears or cleaver. Breaking a leg bone is easy using the handle of a western knife while holding the blade with a towel.
 
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