wet forming leather ???

T

Terry_Dodson

Joined
Jul 10, 2002
Messages
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I was making a pouch sheath for a knife, i cut the leather to the form i wanted, glued in the shaped welt, made my stiching indents with a home made pointy wheel thing on the top of the welt, drilles small holes thru the welt and bottom side of the sheath, folded over the top part, turned it upside down and drilled the holes thru the pre-drilled holes, so now the holes go all the way thru, stitched it up, looked pretty (good for me :D ), and was pretty tight, decided i wanted to try the wet forming to show the outline of the gurd and handle and make it fit just right. I took the sheath ran water all over it and inside it and put it in a zip lock bag with a little bit of water in the bottom ( a couple table spoons), and let it sit over night. wrapped the whole knife in saran wrap and inserted it into the sheath and started rupping around where i wanted the form. got to looking pretty good but the leather would show moisture when i would press on it (too much water i guess) and wasnt drying very quickly, so i put it between 2 pieces of padding stuff and put some weight on it thinking that would help with the formingand left it over night. the next night i took it out and took the knife out, it still seemed just a little damp, so i put just the sheath into a toaster oven and set it for 200 degrees, i figured that should dry it out and not husrt anything, and left it there for 3 hours. after the 3 hours were up i took it out and it felt dry and harder than when i put it in. now comes my problem, when i tried to insert the knife it seems the leather has shrunk about 1/8" or so and doesnt fit anymore. So i guess my questions are what order do i do things if i want to wet form a sheath, and if i put a sheath and knife wrapped in saran wrap in the oven will the saran wrap melt or anything or will it still make the sheath too tight, or do i have to air dry it? :confused:

edit: i did not seal it yet with bees wax or anything, i was going to save that for the last step.
 
When I was wet forming with water all I did was run the sheath under warm water and wet it enough to be pliable. Then I would put the knife in and form it around the knife. After I form it I took out the knife and put the sheath in front of a fan and let it dry for 24 hrs. Now what I do is wet form after I dip the sheath in leather dye. While it's wet with dye I wrap the knife in plastic wrap and form the sheath while wet with dye. Then put it in front of the fan for 24 hrs. to dry. I apply Kiwi neutral shoe polish to the sheath as a protectant.
Scott
 
Razorback - Knives said:
When I was wet forming with water all I did was run the sheath under warm water and wet it enough to be pliable. Then I would put the knife in and form it around the knife. After I form it I took out the knife and put the sheath in front of a fan and let it dry for 24 hrs. Now what I do is wet form after I dip the sheath in leather dye. While it's wet with dye I wrap the knife in plastic wrap and form the sheath while wet with dye. Then put it in front of the fan for 24 hrs. to dry. I apply Kiwi neutral shoe polish to the sheath as a protectant.
Scott
Click to expand...

that's intersting Scott
is the die heated up first?
and what weight leather are you using? if you would ..TX :)
 
Dan the dye is room temperture and the leather is 8-9oz. veg tanned. I tried this as an experiment to see if I could save time making sheathes. It worked and I've been doing it ever since. So far no problems (knock on wood) :)
Scott
 
Thanks guys. i guess i got it way too wet. before i put it in the oven it fit really well, do you think the 200 degrees made it shrink? is 200 too hot for a sheath, that is as low as my toaster oven goes. if i just put it in front of the fan will it shrink or do i need to leave the knife inside it while it is in front of the fan.
Dan when forming it first how do you make sure of a really tight fit? I thought it had to be sewn first so it could be formed for the tight fit. and i did make an inlet in the welt for the finger guard to lock into, and it fit nicely before the oven.
 
Terry_Dodson said:
Thanks guys. i guess i got it way too wet. before i put it in the oven it fit really well, do you think the 200 degrees made it shrink? is 200 too hot for a sheath, that is as low as my toaster oven goes. if i just put it in front of the fan will it shrink or do i need to leave the knife inside it while it is in front of the fan.
Dan when forming it first how do you make sure of a really tight fit? I thought it had to be sewn first so it could be formed for the tight fit. and i did make an inlet in the welt for the finger guard to lock into, and it fit nicely before the oven.
Click to expand...

terry
the shrinking the way I do it will hug it better then you control the fit
with the welt thickness , I soak it under hot tap water just until it's pliable.
some times I don't even use the PVC pads I just mold it with my fingers.

Scott how long are you soaking it in the die?
I'm using 10-12oz so it needs to be real Pliable..

just a note I made a sheath yesterday the welt style for a folder that
fit just a tad tight I had it all tooled and dyed, so I dumped some acetone
in it shook it up some dumped it out and put some masking tape on the folder to get it a little more body and drove it home and finger molded a little.
JUST right Now :D Bruce Evans uses Acetone too I believe..
 
Terry
I do a variation of the general procedure. I cover the knife with tape, spray it with silicone and then put it into the wet sheath. I do not use water though, I use isopropal alcohol. I put the alcohol in a pan, soak the sheath in it only till it is damp, not soaked, then in goes the knife. I then form the leather to the knife and let it set for about 3 hours to start to dry, then pull the knife out and let it dry completely. To finish it I run the sheath over a candle flame till it is good and full of soot, then rub in a leather dressing. Yes, I get my hands a bit dirty, but it does put on a nice aged look on the leather. This works well for me since the style of knives I do are old and used.( my wife tells me they are just like the guy doing them) :yawn:
It's funny you should post this today, I just finished a batch of 15 sheaths last night.
Good luck
 
Terry applying heat to leather forces out the natral oil in the leather and will cause the leather to be come dry, here's what I do, make the sheath as you normally would, wrap the knife in black tape so its water proof, place the sheath under warm running water untill it pliable, it should feel a little slippery but not soaking, give it a little pat down with a towel, insert the knife, forn the leather to the knife with your fingers, let it stand a few hours at room temp so the air can get all around it, remove the knife and let it stand over night, dont play with it, in the morning put the knife back in and check it for fit if its OK give it another day to dry then dye it, if not repeat the wetting and do it again. anyway thats what works for me.
 
Heat is not good for leather. Circulating dry air will do it .When I'm drying wet gloves or boots or the rare leather projects it' never more than 100F. I remember reading info about a boot company that said the most common cause of damage was drying over high heat !
 
Thanks for the help, i now see where i did a couple things wrong, i am making a new sheath for this one now, dampened the leather just a little, and forming it now (stuck the wrapped knife in it with the welt where i want it and folded it over and put between 2 pieces of padding to form it), when i get home i will mark the holes for sewing it together, and will NOT put it in an oven, i will let it air dry (how long should i let it dry before i seal it with melted bees wax?).
 
Terry
if you're thinking placing the welt in while molding, it may end up tight
once dry.
I put the welt in as one of the last parts after dry. the welt will open the sheath up after it shrinks.
. I use plastic (food) wrap to wrap the knife
easy, fast and cheap :)
 
Hi!!

I do the same as Dan - put the welt in last. I also use a spray bottle of water and spray the stitching holes as a stitch-when it drys, it cinches it up just a tad for the odd one that gets every so slightly loose. Depending on how you apply your dye, it's also going to dampen the leather so any extra molding can be done at that point as well.

Hope this helps - gord
 
Terry_Dodson said:
Thanks. the leather i got is already black, do i still need to get black dye and dye it after i finish it?
Click to expand...
if you want .. you Can
is it died to the center? I normally don't die the already Black
and if the center is not died you can leave it that way and burnish it or
die it or edge coat it.
 
it is dyed on top (shiny side) and bottom (fuzzier side), center is brown, so i guess i do need to dye the edges. how do you burnish leather edges? the welt (thinner than the black) i had in it was purple all the way thru (i got a big bag of leather pieces at Hobby Lobby).
 
Dan Gray said:
Scott how long are you soaking it in the die?
I'm using 10-12oz so it needs to be real Pliable..
Click to expand...
Dan, I don't soak. I dip the sheath in dye that I poured into a 2 1/2 gal water container I cut in half. I wet it with dye long enough to make it pliable. Your thicker leather may need more dip time.
Scott
 
another question about sealing it with melted beeswax.... i heard i can dip the entire sheath into a pot of melted beeswax (but that is a lot of beeswax and a big pot, the sheath is about 9" long), that way it gets inside and out and into the stitching to seal it, is that a good way or should i just ment the beeswax and paint it on with a paintbrush, and then buff ( do you do the buffing by hand or machine, and what about the inside?) afterwards with either method. how thick should it be, just what will soak in?
 
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