What’s your S45VN experience been?

My buddy has S45VN inkosi. He's used it on sheet rock, smacked metal with it, etc and it's been fine. I put the initial 20 DPS edge in it and have maintained it and cleaned it. It took a good dunk in salt water and sat unrinsed for 3-4 days. When he gave the knife to me the blade had spots of surface rust that wiped off with a dry paper towel and then I followed up with oil on it. Can't even tell. The edge was fine then as well. Hardware didn't rust. I was impressed.
 
As far as I can tell, s30, 35, and 45 are all similar enough that the majority of people wouldn’t be able to know the difference if they weren’t told the steel is different. I certainly wouldn’t. These aren’t new trendy ideas coming out to replace old stale numbers. Each iteration are generally nearly immeasurable improvements upon the last, an endless crawl towards perfection
 
I’ve used my Zaan in 45vn lightly and love it seems to hold a nice edge and look good doing it 😁
a6DH45H.jpg
 
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I havent noticed much of a difference.

Touching up the edge takes about the same time and effort on the sharpmaker.
 
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J.Mattson said:
I've noticed virtually no difference in sharpening and use.
Click to expand...

Honestly I suspect most users won't. Not because there isn't much difference but day to day use doesn't always make the differences apparent when they're not that large.
 
... incremental differences between 30, 35, and 45.
Most folks couldn't tell the differences between them.
It takes someone who is putting an edge on them; to see it.
 
Bob Denman said:
... incremental differences between 30, 35, and 45.
Most folks couldn't tell the differences between them.
It takes someone who is putting an edge on them; to see it.
Click to expand...

I agree. You won’t notice much difference with the factory edges. Put a fresh edge and drop the angle down to around 17 or 15 dps and you will notice it hold an edge better than the old s35. I don’t think it’s the steel though, just the heat treat.
 
Peakbagger46 said:
For those that have used one for a while, how has the performance been compared to the S35VN?
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Not to hijack this thread but this will be a long reply conveying real world experiences as it is a subject I am very much experienced with and have been comparing for a while now.

My experience with S45VN has been different with different brands.

For example I have the early Spyderco PM2 release with the green handle and used it very gently popping a double a AA battery out of a plastic keyboard and the tip snapped off and it chipped the blade as well. I was very unhappy how brittle it was. This however did not stop me from buying a second PM2 in S45Vn later with a regular black handle as well as a PM3 in S45VN. I have not experienced the brittleness in either of these two later runs so I am chocking it up to early run with a heat treatment issue.

I do like the way S45VN does hold a truly very sharp edge far better and longer than the PM2 in S35VN.

I sent the first PM2 S45VN in with 2 others to Rob Bixby of the ApostleP YouTube channel because I was disgusted with how brittle it was and did not have the heart to work on it and I also wanted to get a accurate gauges on how my own sharpening skills were progressing compared to a long time professional sharpener. Rob did a wonderful job of recreating the tip removing the chip and returned a nice sharp blade to me. It has held its edge very well and when it eventually dulls I will re-sharpen it but without the mirrored edge. Mirrored edges are beautiful but not terribly practical as it tends to slide off of materials.

S45Vn in my use is very much like S30V, S35VN and the M390 variants like CTS 204P and CPM 20CV they all do better with a non polished edge. Got carbides? well use them is me motto, keep the blade a bit toothy not all shiny.

Another knife I sent into Rob was my Buck 110 in S45VN with marble carbon fiber inlays and aluminum bolsters.

The Buck in my experience was different in S45VN than the Spyderco it held a truly sharp edge longer yet was also easier to sharpen and achieved sharpness much faster just using Spyderco Gally V sharpening rods for touch up.

Rob having sharpened both of the S45VN knives also noticed a difference in how they sharpened he reported that the Buck sharpened easier than the Spyderco. It is my opinion that it is a difference in the heat treatment I know Buck does their own Bose heat treatment which has proven excellent over the years even with 420HC.

I do not know if Spyderco does there heat treatment in house or ships them out like Chris Reeve does or did back when they did the factory tour video years ago. In my experience Buck has their heat treatment for S45VN dialed in perfectly.

My most recent S45VN purchase to the tune of $550.00 has been something of a disappointment, this however is not the fault of the steel as I have also faced this same disappointment in the past.

What is the disappointment? well I used to own 4 different folding models totaling 5 knives as one was a backup of Chris Reeve Sebenza 21 all in S35VN at the time I wanted to see where my taste lied between large and small and between drop point and Insingo. So one of each respectively and 2 of the Sebenza 21 drop point because I loved it the best.

All of these Sebenza 21's excluding the small versions were dull from the factory, for some reason the small versions were not. One of the worst cuts I ever received was from a small 21 but that was my fault my hands are just too big and I suppose clumsy to really use a Reeve lock in that small of a format.

The knives costed so much money each I did not dare to try to reprofile them for fear of not being able to resell them, the large ones that is. I immediately sold the small ones after getting cut.

So the most I ever did to my large 21 user was use the Spyderco sharp maker rods to try to get some sharpness out it for fear that if I reprofiled the blade and the steel was just overhyped crap and I did not like it I would be stuck with it or have to sell at a huge loss, the results with the sharpmaker were mediocre at best.

The reason I bought a Spyderco Sharpmaker was because this is what Chris Reeve said to use to maintain the blade. Chris Reeve also touted his way of Grinding a blade to convex for so many compelling reasons. I have not found any of them to be conducive to a truly sharp blade.

During this time I bought my first PM2 in S30V it seemed so primitive and poor in construction compared to a Chris Reeve Knife and in truth it really is a cheaply manufactured piece by comparison. I remember thinking why am I purchasing this cheap looking crap? Oh well they seem popular I guess I can resell it if I don't like it. The PM2 however ran circles around the Sebenza in sharpness from the factory and all aspects of cutting performance.

This really made me look at the Chris reeve brand and the knife community at large with a sense of betrayal of expectations. I mean seriously a $145 to $160.00 dollar knife running circles around $410.00 knife in all aspects of cutting performance?

Something is wrong around here was my conclusion.

This really made me feel like a chump for spending so much money on Sebenzas. I put the Sebenzas away hoping I would warm up to them again because selling them would mean loosing money.

After getting used to Spyderco, Benchmade Buck and a few others I sold them all as well as my Nyalas and went without a Sebenza or any other Chris Reeve product for the last 4 years. The Sebenza and the Nyala however continued to haunt me, and as I gained more experience with different sharpening methods and angles I realized that allot of it has to do with the angle and getting past the factory edge to the steel beneath. For example I purchased a Spyderco Yojumbo in S30V it came in dull like a butter knife. So I put it on my TSPROF Kadet and broke out the angle cube and the sharpie found the factory edge was at roughly 17 degrees.

Time to reprofile I dropped it down to 15 degrees and just used the Diamond plates that came with the unit ( which while using older plated technology are surprisingly excellent and far better than the ones that came with the Wicked Edge which I sold for many reasons) ( Set of 5 for $40.00 at Gritomatic and available as of today ) When I was done the edge was sticky sharp and has continued to remain so much longer than S30V factory edges ever do.

Anyway Loving the S45VN I had already experienced led me to pull the trigger on a Large Sebenza 31 with Natural Micarta Inlays in S45VN. The inlays really do make a vast improvement over the plain Jane models I used to have. Unfortunately this one also came in dull from the factory. Seriously could not even slice magazine paper forget about telephone book paper.

Is it disappointing to spend $550.00 on a dull knife when I can spend far less than that on a different brand that comes in razor sharp?

Well yes and no.

Yes in my opinion it is unacceptable and it makes me wonder if people reviewing these knives just look at them or actually use them? It also makes me wonder why Chris Reeve really chose this way of grinding knives because clearly anyone who has any experience with truly sharp knives or making them sharp will not be pleased by the examples I have received.

My admittedly limited sampling has formed my opinion and beliefs that the knives blades are convexed either due to Chris's beliefs or on purpose to save time and wear on the belts as It most certainly does not lead to increased cutting performance by comparison.

I think that most people will be more like me than not when it comes to a limited sampling of 9 Chris Reeve Knives or less.

Is this a deal breaker? No there is just so much more to love about a Sebenza or an Nyala that making corrections or paying someone to do so for you like Rob is well worth it.

I have read and watched the hype about a convex edge but it has not really held up as being worth while in any of the S family of steels including S45VN as it is never as slicing sharp as a regular V grind in my use which is pretty much for everything you can imagine a knife being used for.

No I am not really disappointed because I figured this would be the case based on my past experience, furthermore I purchased the knife for more reasons than sharpness which I am certain I can change.

The primary reason beyond the fit finish and feel of a Sebenza was that Chris Reeve had switched to S45VN.

I love the design and the ergos of the large Sebenzas but would never have sprung for another S35VN which I have owned in different models of knives and never really been terribly impressed with.

Admittedly I did not give S35VN with Chris Reeve Knives a fair shake for fear or ruining the resale value and also less than favorable experiences with S35VN living up to its rep in other brands.

So now the question becomes like this.

How can I use my TSPROF Blitz 360 to best correct this? I have the convex adapter and have convexed other blades but have never achieved the degree of slicing sharpness that I get with a regular V grind.

I intend to keep this knife and make it a user.

What has been the experience of others who have removed the convex on a Sebenza in favor of a regular V grind? I am thinking of starting at 20 Degree reprofile using the TSPROF Blitz with a digital angle cube and being careful not to put a big belly bevel around the tip area and then perhaps go as low as 15 degrees eventually.

Once I have some more info from the experienced users here and have this knife seriously sharp I will give my conclusions on the Sebenza in S45VN so far I am expecting great things based on the other knives in this fantastic steel.
 
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I
Begggar_So said:
Not to hijack this thread but this will be a long reply conveying real world experiences as it is a subject I am very much experienced with and have been comparing for a while now.

My experience with S45VN has been different with different brands.

For example I have the early Spyderco PM2 release with the green handle and used it very gently popping a double a AA battery out of a plastic keyboard and the tip snapped off and it chipped the blade as well. I was very unhappy how brittle it was. This however did not stop me from buying a second PM2 in S45Vn later with a regular black handle as well as a PM3 in S45VN. I have not experienced the brittleness in either of these two later runs so I am chocking it up to early run with a heat treatment issue.

I do like the way S45VN does hold a truly very sharp edge far better and longer than the PM2 in S35VN.

I sent the first PM2 S45VN in with 2 others to Rob Bixby of the ApostleP YouTube channel because I was disgusted with how brittle it was and did not have the heart to work on it and I also wanted to get a accurate gauges on how my own sharpening skills were progressing compared to a long time professional sharpener. Rob did a wonderful job of recreating the tip removing the chip and returned a nice sharp blade to me. It has held its edge very well and when it eventually dulls I will re-sharpen it but without the mirrored edge. Mirrored edges are beautiful but not terribly practical as it tends to slide off of materials.

S45Vn in my use is very much like S30V, S35VN and the M390 variants like CTS 204P and CPM 20CV they all do better with a non polished edge. Got carbides? well use them is me motto, keep the blade a bit toothy not all shiny.

Another knife I sent into Rob was my Buck 110 in S45VN with marble carbon fiber inlays and aluminum bolsters.

The Buck in my experience was different in S45VN than the Spyderco it held a truly sharp edge longer yet was also easier to sharpen and achieved sharpness much faster just using Spyderco Gally V sharpening rods for touch up.

Rob having sharpened both of the S45VN knives also noticed a difference in how they sharpened he reported that the Buck sharpened easier than the Spyderco. It is my opinion that it is a difference in the heat treatment I know Buck does their own Bose heat treatment which has proven excellent over the years even with 420HC.

I do not know if Spyderco does there heat treatment in house or ships them out like Chris Reeve does or did back when they did the factory tour video years ago. In my experience Buck has their heat treatment for S45VN dialed in perfectly.

My most recent S45VN purchase to the tune of $550.00 has been something of a disappointment, this however is not the fault of the steel as I have also faced this same disappointment in the past.

What is the disappointment? well I used to own 4 different folding models totaling 5 knives as one was a backup of Chris Reeve Sebenza 21 all in S35VN at the time I wanted to see where my taste lied between large and small and between drop point and Insingo. So one of each respectively and 2 of the Sebenza 21 drop point because I loved it the best.

All of these Sebenza 21's excluding the small versions were dull from the factory, for some reason the small versions were not. One of the worst cuts I ever received was from a small 21 but that was my fault my hands are just too big and I suppose clumsy to really use a Reeve lock in that small of a format.

The knives costed so much money each I did not dare to try to reprofile them for fear of not being able to resell them, the large ones that is. I immediately sold the small ones after getting cut.

So the most I ever did to my large 21 user was use the Spyderco sharp maker rods to try to get some sharpness out it for fear that if I reprofiled the blade and the steel was just overhyped crap and I did not like it I would be stuck with it or have to sell at a huge loss, the results with the sharpmaker were mediocre at best.

The reason I bought a Spyderco Sharpmaker was because this is what Chris Reeve said to use to maintain the blade. Chris Reeve also touted his way of Grinding a blade to convex for so many compelling reasons. I have not found any of them to be conducive to a truly sharp blade.

During this time I bought my first PM2 in S30V it seemed so primitive and poor in construction compared to a Chris Reeve Knife and in truth it really is a cheaply manufactured piece by comparison. I remember thinking why am I purchasing this cheap looking crap? Oh well they seem popular I guess I can resell it if I don't like it. The PM2 however ran circles around the Sebenza in sharpness from the factory and all aspects of cutting performance.

This really made me look at the Chris reeve brand and the knife community at large with a sense of betrayal of expectations. I mean seriously a $145 to $160.00 dollar knife running circles around $410.00 knife in all aspects of cutting performance?

Something is wrong around here was my conclusion.

This really made me feel like a chump for spending so much money on Sebenzas. I put the Sebenzas away hoping I would warm up to them again because selling them would mean loosing money.

After getting used to Spyderco, Benchmade Buck and a few others I sold them all as well as my Nyalas and went without a Sebenza or any other Chris Reeve product for the last 4 years. The Sebenza and the Nyala however continued to haunt me, and as I gained more experience with different sharpening methods and angles I realized that allot of it has to do with the angle and getting past the factory edge to the steel beneath. For example I purchased a Spyderco Yojumbo in S30V it came in dull like a butter knife. So I put it on my TSPROF Kadet and broke out the angle cube and the sharpie found the factory edge was at roughly 17 degrees.

Time to reprofile I dropped it down to 15 degrees and just used the Diamond plates that came with the unit ( which while using older plated technology are surprisingly excellent and far better than the ones that came with the Wicked Edge which I sold for many reasons) ( Set of 5 for $40.00 at Gritomatic and available as of today ) When I was done the edge was sticky sharp and has continued to remain so much longer than S30V factory edges ever do.

Anyway Loving the S45VN I had already experienced led me to pull the trigger on a Large Sebenza 31 with Natural Micarta Inlays in S45VN. The inlays really do make a vast improvement over the plain Jane models I used to have. Unfortunately this one also came in dull from the factory. Seriously could not even slice magazine paper forget about telephone book paper.

Is it disappointing to spend $550.00 on a dull knife when I can spend far less than that on a different brand that comes in razor sharp?

Well yes and no.

Yes in my opinion it is unacceptable and it makes me wonder if people reviewing these knives just look at them or actually use them? It also makes me wonder why Chris Reeve really chose this way of grinding knives because clearly anyone who has any experience with truly sharp knives or making them sharp will not be pleased by the examples I have received.

My admittedly limited sampling has formed my opinion and beliefs that the knives blades are convexed either due to Chris's beliefs or on purpose to save time and wear on the belts as It most certainly does not lead to increased cutting performance by comparison.

I think that most people will be more like me than not when it comes to a limited sampling of 9 Chris Reeve Knives or less.

Is this a deal breaker? No there is just so much more to love about a Sebenza or an Nyala that making corrections or paying someone to do so for you like Rob is well worth it.

I have read and watched the hype about a convex edge but it has not really held up as being worth while in any of the S family of steels including S45VN as it is never as slicing sharp as a regular V grind in my use which is pretty much for everything you can imagine a knife being used for.

No I am not really disappointed because I figured this would be the case based on my past experience, furthermore I purchased the knife for more reasons than sharpness which I am certain I can change.

The primary reason beyond the fit finish and feel of a Sebenza was that Chris Reeve had switched to S45VN.

I love the design and the ergos of the large Sebenzas but would never have sprung for another S35VN which I have owned in different models of knives and never really been terribly impressed with.

Admittedly I did not give S35VN with Chris Reeve Knives a fair shake for fear or ruining the resale value and also less than favorable experiences with S35VN living up to its rep in other brands.

So now the question becomes like this.

How can I use my TSPROF Blitz 360 to best correct this? I have the convex adapter and have convexed other blades but have never achieved the degree of slicing sharpness that I get with a regular V grind.

I intend to keep this knife and make it a user.

What has been the experience of others who have removed the convex on a Sebenza in favor of a regular V grind? I am thinking of starting at 20 Degree reprofile using the TSPROF Blitz with a digital angle cube and being careful not to put a big belly bevel around the tip area and then perhaps go as low as 15 degrees eventually.

Once I have some more info from the experienced users here and have this knife seriously sharp I will give my conclusions on the Sebenza in S45VN so far I am expecting great things based on the other knives in this fantastic steel.
Click to expand...

I always re-profile my CRK‘s to a V edge. They cut waaaaaaayyyy better.
 
the convex profile is better than the classic V, it must be done well though.
I have tried both profiles with time on CRK and in the end the convex is better in cutting capacity and edge retention.
the V 20 ° has a lower cutting capacity on hard materials or those that tend to drown the blade, the problem could be improved by switching to a more acute angle such as 15 ° but then the edge retention would be much poorer given the lower hardness of the heat treatment chosen by CRK.
so over time I preferred convex sharpening as originally, the difficulty of this type of sharpening is that it must be done well and possibly freehand, machines that promise this type of sharpening do not exist or if they do it they do it badly.
the advice i give is to take spyderco benchstone in brown and white ceramic you get better results, practice a lot on cheaper knives first.
 
After quite a bit of thought and research and reading the replies I decided to abandon the convex as it is not really practical to attempt to maintain with my skills and discover the actual degrees this Sebenza 31 inlay in S45VN came in at from the factory. First I taped up the blade with clear USPS packing tape, cut the tape using the outline of the knife removed the tape and moved it up a bit so only the edge and as little of the flats were left exposed. the left over tape was then used to seal up the pivot area to keep Diamond and Steel from sharpening entering the pivot finally I finished with some blue tape to really seal it and protect the handle from any contact with the stones.

Yes this is allot of work but well worth it mistakes and scratches can happen.

After this I mounted the blade in the Jaws of the TSPROF Blitz.
https://imgur.com/t5SJLdx

https://imgur.com/9FQjiWE

Having read how Chris Reeve Knives grinds their blades between 18 and 20 degrees and also having read how some people have found them to be as far off as 25 degrees it seemed logical to me not to attempt to reprofile to 18 degrees until I first discovered where the starting point is in reality.

After mounting the blade I took a digital angle cube and discovered the factory edge came in at pretty much 22.5 degrees on each side by first assuming the high starting point of 20 degrees thinking that would be the high norm as stated by Chris Reeve.

As it turns out it was not.

I used red sharpie and a lighted jewelers loop because it is easier to see and marked both sides of the blade, started with light passes using a 1000 grit diamond plate which if the very fine plate supplied in the TSPROF kit. 20 degrees was not hitting the apex so I bumped it up to 21 degrees then 22 and was almost there but the tip was not apexing and sharpie was still not being removed so I went to 22.5 degrees and that took care of it.

Some side notes just incase someone is interested in this sharpening system. If you use this system you need to be very careful and use a digital angle cube because it can be as much as 2.5 degrees off on either side so this means when you sharpen the first side or even attempt to discover the blades factory geometry you must zero out the cube for side A and then set the angle and then do the same for side B and you must do this every time you flip the blade to work on it or you are guaranteed to screw up the blade.

This is not true of every knife it has everything to do with the grind of the blade but it is an issue to be aware of, what our eyes can see and what is the truth of a blades 3 dimensional reality are often two very different things and I think this is why free hand sharpeners with great skill get such great results compared to guided systems. Sadly I do not posses the free hand skills.

Another note on this blade the presentation side actually is ground very different from the opposite side and you can not tell by looking at it I discovered this while removing sharpie the belly going towards the tip swept much deeper and I had to be very careful with the stone. So going from heal to tip right to left everything is very straight then getting to the belly and going to the tip the stone takes a drastic feeling downwards left side of the stone tipping then arriving at the tip, this takes practice to compensate for and taking your time feeling and learning the blade.

No fixed sharpening system will make a person a good sharpener it is a learning process with each and every system!

Another sharpening tip I have learned is to allow the tip and the belly to determine where you need to start if you do not you are going to get messed up bevels and be very wide at the tip especially on knives like this Sebenza. While sharpening this blade I discovered it was not ground evenly from heal to tip the sharpie really brings this out big time for example the the area from heal to belly were not all strictly 22.5 degrees 22.5 degrees is what removed sharpie from the tip and belly which as I explained you must satisfy first or you are going to screw up the bevels. The other areas were removing sharpie at around 21 degrees but not evenly.

Another tip with Sebenza 31 when you come to the tip slightly change the pressure to favor the blade behind you to prevent rounding the tip and do the same but in the opposite direction as you approach the choil area so you do not round that either.

Another tip after scrubbing in your grind to erase the sharpie then begin using sweeping strokes to blend the scratch pattern and remove multifaciting.

A curious thing about S45Vn on the Sebenza 31 I discovered to my surprise and delight that it sharpened very easily in that using the 22.5 degree profile which was a close to a consistent starting point I could measure as outlined above was that I did not need to go down into lower grits and do the whole grit progression in order to set the blade at 22.5 degrees evenly which is because I was only smoothing out and equalizing the apex without really reprofiling out the entire convex geometry.

The end result was a very sharp blade much sharper than from the factory and the bevels were not widened and remained consistent.

In the past I have heavily reprofiled S90V Spyderco Military and CTS204P Military to 10 degrees both of these knives were originally around 16 to 17 degrees per side from the factory. 6 to 7 degrees does not sound like much but I can tell you with high wear resistant steels it take forever. S90V is incredibly wear resistant.

I like the way S45VN sharpened on this knife, it was not difficult at all and was very friendly to work with it did not resist my efforts and it took very little time to sharpen. Yes I know I only evened out what was already pretty much present without really changing maybe more than .2 to .3 degrees if that. Still S45Vn is a high wear resistant steel and taking a little off at a time is going to yield better result and far better control and waste less good steel than trying to zap it down from 22 degrees to 15, that is a 7 degree fight I do not want to get in, I learned that the hard way taking down knives to 10 degrees. BTW they both hold their extremely sharp edges for a very long time and slice like nothing I have ever seen before.

The end result on this S45Vn blade produced a sharp blade but the 22.5 degree angle can still be felt as a bitt too obtuse, it does not compare with a 15 degree angle nor a 10 degree angle as far as slicing ability with ease.

The next time I sharpen this knife I will take it down another 1/2 degree to 22 degrees, the time after that 21.5 and so on and so forth until ending at 15 degrees this way I can maintain precision and bevels and see where S45Vn on this knife really wants to be in terms of performance and edge retention. I may never get down to 15 degrees and that is alright it is pretty good where it is now.

Sharpening this steel on this blade is comparable to S35VN but it seems to want to get sharper. Sharpening this steel is a little easier than S30V and pretty comparable to M390 CTS204P and 20CV

CTSXHP which is close to S30V and S35VN is easier to sharpen by comparison. As for edge retention well that will take a while to tell, when it gets dulled a bit I will take it down another 1/2 degree to improve performance and see how it goes.
 
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