What about a Kiln instead of an oven?

adammichael

adammichael

Joined
Sep 13, 2004
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I am looking for a heat treat oven and i see alot of kilns for sale but not many ovens. Anyone have any thoughts on using a kiln instead of an oven? What are the pros and cons? the kilns i am interested in have a contoler like the Rampmaster that Evenheat. Theyreach a max of 2350 degrees so why wont that work?

I am also looking for a hardness tester if any one has a line on one.

Thanks
Michael
 
they would work very well for heat treat. but you probably couldn't keep it cool enough for tempering. the only down side is they take a long time to heat up.
but if you wanted good temprature control you couldn't do much better
 
i almost missed the bit about a hardness tester. i seem to remember a plan i saw for a rebound type hardness tester, it was a pair of uprights with a weight(i want to say it was one pound) with a scale next to it. the weight was dropped on the sample and the rebound was measured.
using a chart of rebounds from known samples you could get a fairly accurate reading.
 
The biggest problem that I can see is getting your blades out -- You're not going to be about to open it up and reach in to grab the blades to quench, but some people get over that by cutting a hole in the top and hanging their blades in the kiln.
 
adammichael said:
I am looking for a heat treat oven and i see alot of kilns for sale but not many ovens. Anyone have any thoughts on using a kiln instead of an oven? What are the pros and cons? the kilns i am interested in have a contoler like the Rampmaster that Evenheat. Theyreach a max of 2350 degrees so why wont that work?

I am also looking for a hardness tester if any one has a line on one.

Thanks
Michael
Click to expand...
Michael
the Rampmaster II Evenheat is what I have.
I like it..some guys don't like the new type Controller they have now.
mine takes about an hour to heat up to 1950
but I special ordered a longer one for myself..to make short swords. :)
....... Michael B these are
a front door type so it's easy to get your blades out and yes it is made as
and to be a kiln
 
Maybe Peter Atwood will see this and pipe in. He used to use a kiln to HT his blades.

Mike, I am also thinking a kiln will cost a heck of a lot more to run than a knifemakers furnace. Perhaps the best advice I could give you is to bite the bullet and get one. Energy costs are a real threat these days.

On the furnace itself, I have a Paragon 14D. I love it. It's a fine piece of equipment, but I think they are too expensive and I would definitely get the Evenheat if I had to do it all over again. Also, for the big bowies and daggers, the 14" depth is uncomfortably small. I'd get the larger version if I where to do many longer blades simply for the capacity to more-evenly heat the blade, not being in such close proximity to the heating elements.
 
I started out with a small anolog potters kiln that was a front opener. It worked Just fine. I later bought a Paragon and I'm happy with it. The kiln has been regulated to a back up unit.

I just picked up a hand held Ames model 2 hardness tester on Ebay for $256.00. Iv'e been scanning Ebay regularly for an Ames or Clark unit for several months. These units run about 2k new so I am quite happy to pick up a complete unit up for such a reasonable price. You can get the bench top models regularly but I don't have spare bench space and liked the idea of being able to store it all in a drawer.
 
adammichael said:
. . .snip. . .I am also looking for a hardness tester if any one has a line on one.

Thanks
Michael
Click to expand...

Michael, eBay has them from time to time. I went with this one and it has served me well. Get some good test blocks though; something like Wilson or Starrett.
 
Dan Gray said:
Michael
the Rampmaster II Evenheat is what I have.
I like it..some guys don't like the new type Controller they have now.
mine takes about an hour to heat up to 1950
but I special ordered a longer one for myself..to make short swords. :)
....... Michael B these are
a front door type so it's easy to get your blades out and yes it is made as
and to be a kiln
Click to expand...


I just confused myself -- I assumed he was referring to the top-loading pottery kilns.
 
I started with an old analog dental burnout kiln. It's 115V which was nice and it will get to 2000 degrees. Problem is, you have to sit there and watch the temperature. I just use it for flash tempers now because the Evenheat is the cat's meow. (The old one will probably just get sold off now).

I think you'll find the words kiln and oven used pretty much interchangeably. If you're thinking of a potters kiln, It's a pain (in many ways) to try and get the blades out of a top load without burning yourself. Also chamber size makes a differnce in energy consumption.

Rob!
 
Rob! said:
I started with an old analog dental burnout kiln. It's 115V which was nice and it will get to 2000 degrees. Problem is, you have to sit there and watch the temperature. I just use it for flash tempers now because the Evenheat is the cat's meow. (The old one will probably just get sold off now).

I think you'll find the words kiln and oven used pretty much interchangeably. If you're thinking of a potters kiln, It's a pain (in many ways) to try and get the blades out of a top load without burning yourself. Also chamber size makes a differnce in energy consumption.

Rob!
Click to expand...

Its a fairly straightforward task to install a new digital temp controller in any kiln. The problem is that many controllers you see are almost as expensive as the kiln!

Also FWIW, Starrett makes a killer hardness tester. They go for about $1800, but you can usually find them on sale in MSC or KBC once a year.
 
There is a nomenclature difference between KILN and OVEN.Kilns are generally top loading and designed to be sealed up and left closed until cooled.Ovens are generally front loading and designed to be opened and closed when hot,to insert and remove items.David Catoe uses his HT oven sections stacked vertically and suspends his blades in the oven.He has a 3"X3" hole in the top brick.We did a wakazashi with two sections (24") and didn't have a bit of warp.
My next big oven will be vertical.I'm shooting for a 30"X 6" chamber.Probably will need a 6 burner manifold.I am considering a "flip" forge that pivots to allow vertical or horizontal use.If I can get the gas controlled to a close temperature tolerance,it should make a great 'one does it all' unit.It won't be fuel efficient,I fear.
 
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