What angle to grind a slicer?

S

Sprayman

Joined
Nov 15, 2014
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257
Hello, Bladesmiths;

What angle is recommended for a kitchen slicer? I'm using .096 15n20. Not as thin as I'd like, but I think I can still get a good blade out of it if I grind it at the correct angle.

This will be my first time using the Bubble Jig, by the way, which I'm pretty excited about.

Is there a sticky somewhere, or does anybody know of an existing chart that discusses what angles should be ground into different types of blades?

Thanks,

Sprayman
 
Depending on the exact knife (pairing, 9" chef, etc) I would go .005"-.010" thick at the shoulders of the edge and start with 10-15 dps and see how it performs, then adjust from there. Made my wife a 9" chef santoku style knife (see below) out of cpm-20cv and set the edge to 11 dps with a 15 dps microbevel but had some rolling/denting issues as it didn't quite hold up. So I changed the angle to 15 dps w/ a 19 dps micro ( like seriously micro) and it works like a charm. I purposely set the grind up to have a plunge because I will likely regrind this in the years to come, although I do like plungeless best!!

 
I taught myself with help from watching other makers grind ——————////-///—-to do a Full Flat Grind all the way to the top! Start with a 60 grit belt & grind your off hand first. Have two Marked center lines for a .010” edge and take off a bit more than off with the 60 G do your other side Then go to a 120 G for a bit more than half and then to your finishing belts... Stay safe & have Fun
 
For a FFG, start with the stock thickness and pick a number near zero for the edge, then bust out for trig tables. There is your angle. :D
 
One thing to keep in mind is how flexible you want your blade to be. If you are too narrow and to shallow of an angle the blade is going to feel alot like a large filet knife.
 
Whatever angle. It's not important to me. I don't have the faintest idea what angle my bevels are. Sharpening, yes, beveling, no.
 
It's going to depend on the height of the blade.
I use a bubble jig and this is what I would do.
First scribe your centerline, or if it is pre heat treat I scribe 2, leaving some meat on the edge.
Then I would start with the 5 degree block and grind the bevels to your scribe lines.
After you do this, you should have a good feel for which block you need to grab next to get the bevel height that you are after. I imagine probably the 2 or 3 degree.
 
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I'm with kuraki and jdm.

I do the bevels to a near zero edge. I true the edge on the belt and then sharpen at a very low angle ... maybe 10 dps, IDK. I test the edge and if it is too delicate, I convex a second micro bevel angle at 15 dps. I just eyeball the angle and don't really worry what it actually is.

On stones, it is pretty much the same thing. I slightly lift the spine at the end of each stroke to convex the very edge. This gives a robust, but very sharp, edge.

I have seen many chefs sharpen their blades ... and not one ever pulled out a protractor.

I think getting rid of the wire by polishing it off is more important.
 
Stacy, I have dinged so many blade heels on the belt that I just take it down and set the edge with a 1000 grit stone nowadays . I just did that today with a little 115W8 Kephart'ish blade. The spine is .100 and the edge was down around .012-.015 when I started. I tend to use simple steels on my kitchen knives like W2. 1084/15N20 or AEB-L, so the burr has never been an issue. Strop a few strokes with Smurf poo or Aluminum oxide and it's gone.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I'm with kuraki and jdm.

I do the bevels to a near zero edge. I true the edge on the belt and then sharpen at a very low angle ... maybe 10 dps, IDK. I test the edge and if it is too delicate, I convex a second micro bevel angle at 15 dps. I just eyeball the angle and don't really worry what it actually is.

On stones, it is pretty much the same thing. I slightly lift the spine at the end of each stroke to convex the very edge. This gives a robust, but very sharp, edge.

I have seen many chefs sharpen their blades ... and not one ever pulled out a protractor.

I think getting rid of the wire by polishing it off is more important.
Click to expand...
 
E. Carlson has the right approach. It isn't necessary to scribe an edge line if you are grinding using a BJ; having the height of the grind lines matching from side to side will put the edge in the middle of the blade as a matter of course. Instead of selecting a specific angle to grind the bevel at, let the height of the grind lines be the control of what angle is best for any given blade. If you are making the same blade successively you should mark down the angles used; in this way you can produce an exact copy of the blade when you want. This makes grinding matching sets of blades much easier than trying to do so just using the eye. As E. C. stated, start by setting the edge using the 5 degree angle setting and work from there.
I do believe progress is being made. The question was asked, a few years back: "would you like to know what angle the edge is ground at, when purchasing a new knife" I got quite a few laughs from accomplished makers for asking that question. One very famous maker said "I just grind the edge until it is sharp, then I stop grinding" Today edge angle is discussed widely. At some future date, bevel angles used will be as common as having a hammer at the anvil, for it is just as important as understanding edge geometry.
Many threads posted on these forums are discussing "geometry" of this or that blade. What is geometry other than understanding the angles and distances used in making a blade? If you know the angles and line measurements of a knife, it can be reproduced with accuracy.

Happy grinding, Fred
 
I love the Bubble Jig, but unless you are making a Nakiri style knife, you are going to have to freehand a bit. If you are doing a FFG chef's knife or similar, regardless of distal taper, the angle will change from the heel to tip of the blade. I would essentially use the bubble jig to set my bevels and get the grind line up near the spine. Then I would hand grind in the Distal taper by reducing the angle as I moved toward the tip. I would keep the BJ on and reference the bubble's movement as I progressed through the grind.

I forge everything, so I have already forged the distal taper in, so to a large degree, I am just following my forgings. I am assuming the above holds true for stock removal knives, but then I don't have much experience with them, and the ones I have done, I have ground in the distal taper before grinding in the bevels. Someone with more SR experience may be better suited to answer this question.
 
joedhiggins said:
I love the Bubble Jig, but unless you are making a Nakiri style knife, you are going to have to freehand a bit. If you are doing a FFG chef's knife or similar, regardless of distal taper, the angle will change from the heel to tip of the blade. I would essentially use the bubble jig to set my bevels and get the grind line up near the spine. Then I would hand grind in the Distal taper by reducing the angle as I moved toward the tip. I would keep the BJ on and reference the bubble's movement as I progressed through the grind.
in
I forge everything, so I have already forged the distal taper in, so to a large degree, I am just following my forgings. I am assuming the above holds true for stock removal knives, but then I don't have much experience with them, and the ones I have done, I have ground in the distal taper before grinding in the bevels. Someone with more SR experience may be better suited to answer this question.
Click to expand...
You explain the technique better than I. My knives are almost exclusively forged and have the distal taper forged or ground before the bevels. Grinding the belly and tip of most blades, I find, is easier done free hand, using the already established bevels as a guide.
I love the Bubble Jig as well even after grinding a thousand blades with one. :)
 
joedhiggins said:
I love the Bubble Jig, but unless you are making a Nakiri style knife, you are going to have to freehand a bit. If you are doing a FFG chef's knife or similar, regardless of distal taper, the angle will change from the heel to tip of the blade. I would essentially use the bubble jig to set my bevels and get the grind line up near the spine. Then I would hand grind in the Distal taper by reducing the angle as I moved toward the tip. I would keep the BJ on and reference the bubble's movement as I progressed through the grind.

I forge everything, so I have already forged the distal taper in, so to a large degree, I am just following my forgings. I am assuming the above holds true for stock removal knives, but then I don't have much experience with them, and the ones I have done, I have ground in the distal taper before grinding in the bevels. Someone with more SR experience may be better suited to answer this question.
Click to expand...
As a Stock Removal maker whom free hand grinds, I grind my distal taper in as I grind my bevel. ——————————-With a file guide, I set my plunge lines and as I work out to the tip , I pull the tang just slightly towards me. The I do a pass on the Platen from the tip back about half to two thirds to grind in that distal taper! Repeat till I’m happy with the whole grind...With a little practice it Works fine..
 
Well, so far I've only mangled two blanks (out of two) in experimenting with the Bubble Jig, but I can see how it will help me a lot, with some practice. Right now one of my problems is that my grind lines start to meander and get quite "wavy" the higher up the blade I get. Specifically, they're higher in the middle. Any idea why this would happen, when I'm pretty sure I'm holding the blade steady as I pull it across the platen?
 
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Your blade may be flexing. Are your grind lines deeper around where your support finger is?
 
Sprayman said:
Well, so far I've only mangled two blanks (out of two) in experimenting with the Bubble Jig. I can see how it will help me a lot. Right now one of my problems is that my grind lines start to meander a lot the higher up the blade I get. Specifically, they're higher in the middle. Any idea why this would happen, when I'm pretty sure I'm holding the blade steady as I pull it across the platen?
Click to expand...
I just sent you an e-mail about this issue. Try the suggestions and let me know if this addresses this.


Regards, Fred
 
Also, the belt just spends more time on the middle than it does on the plunge or tip.
If you think about it, if you are grinding a 4 inch blade, and you lay it down at the plunge, the othe edge of the belt is grinding two inches in. Then as you stop grinding at the tip, that two inches into the blade is still on the belt.
So naturally the middle gets more belt time.
To eliminate that, you’ve got to monitor your pressure, as well as the speed of your pass. Also don’t be afraid to start in different portions of the blade. You don’t always have to start at the plunge or tip.
 
A.McPherson said:
Also, the belt just spends more time on the middle than it does on the plunge or tip.
If you think about it, if you are grinding a 4 inch blade, and you lay it down at the plunge, the othe edge of the belt is grinding two inches in. Then as you stop grinding at the tip, that two inches into the blade is still on the belt.
So naturally the middle gets more belt time.
To eliminate that, you’ve got to monitor your pressure, as well as the speed of your pass. Also don’t be afraid to start in different portions of the blade. You don’t always have to start at the plunge or tip.
Click to expand...
"You don't always have to start at the plunge or tip". Yep.
 
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