What angle to sharpen?

Scott J.

Scott J.

Joined
Jun 8, 2019
Messages
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I posted a similar question on the maintenance forum, but got no replies.
I know I should learn to use a stone, but for now I have the Work sharp with only 2 angles (the WSKTS, not KO).
The book and the you tube videos all say to use the 25 dps for outdoor and pocket knives and the 20 dps for kitchen knives.
I understand the idea of the 25 being tougher and good for general outdoor stuff.
However both Buck and Case say to use an angle less than 20.
My carry rotation includes a Case stockman, Case mini copper lock, Boker stockman, Victorinox SAK camper.
My hunting knives are a Buck 110 and a smaller drop point Buck lock.
The hunting knives are mostly for gutting, skinning and quartering white tail deer.
The carry knives are for whatever comes up.... cutting rope, fishing, opening packages, etc.
I'd love to hear opinions on how you would sharpen these if your only options were either 20 or 25 degrees.
Also, do I need to 're grind them to the 20 or 25 if they are at like 16 or 17 from the factory?
Thanks and sorry for the long post.
 
The knives I used to buy as a kid said to put the blade at a 20 degree angle to the stone. I thought they couldn't be serious and must mean 10 degrees to the stone for an included angle of 20 degrees. So that's what I went for. I turn out to have hard-wired myself for 12.5 degrees per side and a 25 degree included angle.
Scott J. said:
Also, do I need to 're grind them to the 20 or 25 if they are at like 16 or 17 from the factory?
Click to expand...
The factory may know at least as much as we do, but a lot of people here like to grind them thinner than the factory edge.
 
This may not be much help right now but hopefully later on... Sharpen them to the angles that work best for you and your uses. A benefit to a knife with more than 1 blade is you can dedicate blades for specific tasks and the angles that work best for them. Also, different steels/blade shapes will work better/easier/longer at different angles at the same task. This really is dependent on you. And finally, you can remove the guide and just sharpen free hand on that to any angle you want. I have the same one and when I do use it, I just free hand it.
 
I don't think I sharpen any of my knives with an angle as obtuse as 25 degrees per side.

My traditional folders with harder heat treatments get sharpened at 15 degrees per side. Softer steel traditionals get sharpened at 20 degrees per side, to help keep the edges from rolling too easily.
 
I've been free hand sharpening my whole life, and I don't think I know what angle I've ever sharpened at. I just never really paid any attention to it. I really don't think it matters in the end as long as you have a sharp edge. That rope/twine/steak/plastic package isn't going to now if the edge on your knife is 20 degrees, or 25 degrees. People get way too hung upon angles. Just use a marker to darken the edge, and find how it feels when you sharpen to the angle the knife has on it already. Over time you just develop a feel of how it feels on the stone when you sharpen.

Most people over think it too much.

Edit to add: google youtube instinctive knife sharpening. The guy in the gray flat cap is me some years ago, explaining how to find a "right" angle free hand sharpening. It will be close enough. A few degrees one way or the other will make no difference in the real world.
 
Thanks for all the great feedback, I really appreciate it,
It looks like I'll just use the 20.
Is there any need to use the coarse belt, or is the factory edge of 16-17 close enough to just start with the medium? (None of my knives are super dull, I used to touch them up with a Smith's pull through) And my new ones are new, but the SAK could be a little sharper.
 
Last couple of traditionals I've sharpened to 18dps looked absolutely goofy due to the excessively fat blade grinds.
Puts the sharpening lines 20+% up the side of the blade.:eek:
So I adjusted to 20dps just for aesthetic reasons.
They cut well enough, I just prefer to have less than 20dps just for touch ups on my ceramics that are set at 20dps. Makes my life easier.
 
I reprofile all of my factory edges to 10dps and then put a 15dps microbevel on. If that doesn't hold up, I'll go with a 20dps microbevel. If that doesn't hold up, the knife doesn't hang around. Some of my kitchen knives have a 20 because they're soft and my wife is careless. The softer low carbide steels like on a Vnox, Case, Rough Rider, etc. are easy to sharpen. Once you've got the primary bevel set, a shaving edge should be maybe 5 passes per side when it's time. If you're sharpening and sharpening, stop and regroup, you're doing something wrong. It's not uncommon to see those knives with half their blades ground away by an overly enthusiastic sharpener. I own a couple. One was my fault. :)

When you use a knife with a thin edge, any knife really, it's best to avoid rocking, twisting, wedging, etc. Forces in line with the blade are easily handled. Sideways forces can damage your edge. I think that most manufacturers run their knives thick and grind the edges obtuse to keep warantee costs down. A thinly-ground knife will outlast a thickly-ground one in a cutting contest if it's used with a bit of skill.
 
Scott J. said:
Thanks for all the great feedback, I really appreciate it,
It looks like I'll just use the 20.
Is there any need to use the coarse belt, or is the factory edge of 16-17 close enough to just start with the medium? (None of my knives are super dull, I used to touch them up with a Smith's pull through) And my new ones are new, but the SAK could be a little sharper.
Click to expand...

Check out the bottoms of coffee mugs. They vary a bit, but make great knife sharpeners on the fly. Just don't do it in restaurants, the other patrons give you weird looks.
 
Scott J. said:
Thanks for all the great feedback, I really appreciate it,
It looks like I'll just use the 20. Is there any need to use the coarse belt, or is the factory edge of 16-17 close enough to just start with the medium? (None of my knives are super dull, I used to touch them up with a Smith's pull through) And my new ones are new, but the SAK could be a little sharper.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't recommend a belt grinder for sharpening. I use one, carefully, for regrinding. I sometimes use one very very carefully for reprofiling and stop before I raise a burr. Then I clean them up by hand. The problem with a belt grinder is that because the apex of the edge is so narrow, it heats up really quickly and that ruins the temper. This can happen even if the blade feels cool to the touch. All of the knives in your rotation are on the soft, low carbide end of things and are easy to sharpen by hand.
 
Barman1 said:
Last couple of traditionals I've sharpened to 18dps looked absolutely goofy due to the excessively fat blade grinds.
Click to expand...

That's true. Certain brands are ground really thick. My one Rough Rider(Elephant Toe) ended up with 1/4"+ bevels at 10dps. I regrind those and/or I may use my belt grinder to smooth that transition over and make the blade look more normal. A bit of convexing.
 
I like to keep my light saber at .05 dps ...

But other than that most newer knives will handle 15 to 17 dps with a micro bevel a couple degrees higher and they perform good ... maybe 18 to 20 dps on bigger chopper type blades ...

And on kitchen knives maybe much more acute edges but that's about were I go ...

Most production knives come somewhere close to 20 dps ...
 
jackknife said:
I've been free hand sharpening my whole life, and I don't think I know what angle I've ever sharpened at. I just never really paid any attention to it. I really don't think it matters in the end as long as you have a sharp edge. That rope/twine/steak/plastic package isn't going to now if the edge on your knife is 20 degrees, or 25 degrees. People get way too hung upon angles. Just use a marker to darken the edge, and find how it feels when you sharpen to the angle the knife has on it already. Over time you just develop a feel of how it feels on the stone when you sharpen.

Most people over think it too much.

Edit to add: google youtube instinctive knife sharpening. The guy in the gray flat cap is me some years ago, explaining how to find a "right" angle free hand sharpening. It will be close enough. A few degrees one way or the other will make no difference in the real world.
Click to expand...


I understand what you mean and even though you don't know what angle you are sharpening at, it helps when having a conversation about it, over the internet, if we use numbers and degrees to differentiate what we are discussing.
I disagree and think -That rope/twine/steak/plastic package is going to know if the edge on your knife is 20 degrees, or 25 degrees, and will relate that info by how it cuts.

Some people over simplify it.
"just swipe it on the bottom of a coffee cup, freehand" does not cut it for me.

A degree or 2, one way or the other, will not matter in real world use.
However, 5 degrees on each side= big difference.
 
Scott J. said:
Thanks for all the great feedback, I really appreciate it,
It looks like I'll just use the 20.
Is there any need to use the coarse belt, or is the factory edge of 16-17 close enough to just start with the medium? (None of my knives are super dull, I used to touch them up with a Smith's pull through) And my new ones are new, but the SAK could be a little sharper.
Click to expand...
As usual all the comments on this thread have merit. I don't have any " Hard Steel Knives ", all mine are high carbon knives, case, rough rider, sheffield English. One of the posts i think is most relevant- do not complicate it or over think it, you will do your head in. If you have a way that works for you and you are happy with, stick with it, that does not mean you cannot experiment with some old or cheaper knives though. I have a few V-Ceramic sharpeners so i am fortunate that i have a selection of angles and grits. If i could make a suggestion, try the 20deg with a 25deg micro bevel, i have had a lot of success with this on hunting and work knives. Good luck, you will be fine.:thumbsup:
 
Unless you plan to use the knife for _very_ heavy work that might roll the edge, I would also recommend you sharpen to 20 dps. Use whatever sharpening tool you’re comfortable with. It will make for nice smooth cuts in materials up to moderately hard woods without dulling too fast.

Jeff

P.S. jackknife’s tip about using the bottom of a ceramic cup is a good one. Sharpening isn’t difficult, but it does take a fair amount of practice. And can become a fun pastime in itself. ;)
 
As others have mentioned, it depends solely on what you expect from the edge. If you want a controlled slicer, any thing sub-21 should be fine - but it does depend a bit on the thickness behind the edge. I am seeing more and more video reviews of folks taking a factory 20/1000's BTE and a sub-20 dps and then running a test of cutting sisel rope and comparing it to a thick / steep edged general use hone.

Contemplate the hardest use the blade will be subjected to consistently; and hone to that.
 
Early on my learning-to-sharpen journey I tried profiling knife blades at different angles for specific purposes.... "This here modern folding knife i use for camping shall be 13 degrees with 18 degree micro bevel... and this here pen knife i use for letter opening shall be 15 degrees on the made blade and 10 degrees on the secondary blade.... this here barlow shall be 20 degrees for 'hard use'... " That lasted for 2 weeks when i realized 20 degrees was good enough on everything for everything. Also it was too much work keeping a log of which blade had which angles. So now it's 20 degrees or bust!
 
jrawk said:
Early on my learning-to-sharpen journey I tried profiling knife blades at different angles for specific purposes.... "This here modern folding knife i use for camping shall be 13 degrees with 18 degree micro bevel... and this here pen knife i use for letter opening shall be 15 degrees on the made blade and 10 degrees on the secondary blade.... this here barlow shall be 20 degrees for 'hard use'... " That lasted for 2 weeks when i realized 20 degrees was good enough on everything for everything. Also it was too much work keeping a log of which blade had which angles. So now it's 20 degrees or bust!
Click to expand...
Like your thinking. KEEP it SIMPLE and don't over COMPLICATE it. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Like some others I sharpen by hand so I don’t know the exact angle but I make it as thin as I can without much risk of scratching the full blade but it’s certainly less than 20 degrees. I’m not sure anyone has really given an opinion about whether to re-profile the blade. I think there are times when you do and times when you don’t. In this situation and any time you are using a larger angle than factory I’d say no to re-profiling if you are sharpening to a smaller angle than factory then I’d say re-profiling is a must. I am including terrible drawings to show why I believe this. Picture 1 shows the original edge and the sharpening angle, say a 15 degree original edge with a 20 degree new edge. Picture 2 shows the new edge if you fully re-profile it. Picture 3 shows the edge if you just sharpen it at the new angle without re-profiling, this edge would certainly cut better that 2. Picture 4 shows the blade and the intended new angle that smaller than the old, say going from 20 degrees to 15 degrees. In order to get the new angle all the way to the edge you have to fully re-profile to even sharpen the edge. Hopefully this wasn’t just me rambling.
33E4C57A-34B1-4698-9666-A9A03C1A96EC.jpeg
 
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