What do you think of Tom Brown Jr.?

What about him?
I do know the replies will get interesting soon enough, but I'll hold mine for the time being.
But I will say that I've taken a number of classes, but I am NOT groupie.



Joe
 
there are two kinds of survival teachers, the kind that teaches you the skills to survive, and the kind that gets into the spiritualism of nature. tom brown is the latter. so he is big into the "brother oak" and "sister pine" spiritualism of the woods. i am not making a judgement here for either camp, but that is how i see the two philosophies of survival traing. now it depends on what you wish to come away with from either school. if you are into the quick and dirty this is how you survive if lost in the woods, then there may be a bit of longwindedness in tom brown. but if you want to feel the kindred spirits of the wilds then maybe tom brown is for you. i would suggest you read a couple of his books. they would give you a better idea about his thinking than i can.

alex
 
Ya I know a little about him, i've been to a school sort of like the tracker school in what he taught, and i've read 9 of his books. Was thinking about taking the standard there when i'm old enough to. Just curious to see what other people think of him. Some people say he's arrogant and that you don't learn much at the school.
 
Originally posted by grant4353
Ya I know a little about him, i've been to a school sort of like the tracker school in what he taught, and i've read 9 of his books. Was thinking about taking the standard there when i'm old enough to. Just curious to see what other people think of him. Some people say he's arrogant and that you don't learn much at the school.
Click to expand...

LOL. yeah, he's appears arrogant in the standard class, that's because he has too. Too many damn groupies show up with no intention of learning, but want to meet the guy who writes these books. :rolleyes:
Seriously. Some say you don't learn much, well it depends on your additude. I say yes, and can back up those skills. Least the ones I learned. ;) :footinmou


Joe
 
I've been to a couple of Tom's classes and I would say he is most likely the best out there for both the survival as well as the Native American spiritual stuff. Like Deer Runner said it will depend on your attitude as to weather you will learn or not. There is a lot of the Native spiritual stuff and a lot of pure survival stuff as well. In the Standard class he did seem a bit arrogant/pissed off because people just don't seem to get it. I got the impression he wants to save the world, help people come back to nature and stop destroying the Earth and he seems really frustrated that most people just don't get what$B!G(Bs going on around them. He is very big on awareness, seeing what is going on around you. That being said I think if you go to learn survival you will learn survival, if you go to learn the spiritual stuff you will learn the spiritual stuff. Either way you will get a lot out of it. The man knows his stuff, there is no doubt. Hope this helps.

Ric
 
(laughing) I wondered how long it would take this topic to appear on this board. First and foremost, let me say that I take nothing away from Tom Brown, jr. in the area of skill nor doubt his ability. However,

1. I have read several of his books, lectures and so forth and I dont know if anyone else has noticed but in detail, there seem to be some discrepancies in the timeline of his story from book to book.

2. I have been a police officer for the past 7 years and have attended numerous law enforcement tracking schools and Tom Brown doesnt have the almighty reputation that he claims.

3. Yes, he is arrogant! Who in the world thinks so much of himself that he would charge someone $950.00 a day, A DAY! to learn from him. If he loves the earth so much and wants everyone else to do the same, then how can he justify charging a grand a day to teach others to do so.

4. He bitches about the size of his "Standard" class and not having the time for his students to get "Dirt Time". Then why not minimize the number of students so that those there can actually learn.

5. Now he's selling bullshit like coffee mugs with his "Medicine logo" on it!! It's a damn franchise! and the man is making a killing.

6. And finally, where were a 10 year old childs parents while he was out running around half-naked in the woods with an old indian?? havent figured that one out yet.

If your looking for a good wilderness survival and primitive skills school, I would recommend Matison Parker.

www.bulletproofprimitivesupply.com

The man is extremely nice and knowledgeable and will even talk to you on the phone as long as you want about his courses. Matter of fact, when I first met the man, me and my brother called about attending his course and for a private course for just the two of us it was only $120. a day. He even gave us the option of camping on his property for the week or staying with him. Hell, he'll even feed you or let you eat what you trap.

In 4 days, he will teach you enough were you will never need another school unless you just absolutely want to go. He will teach firemaking, shelter, trapping, primitive tools and advanced bow making. And again, he is just a genuinely a good guy with over 10 years experience with Seal team one.

there are numerous good schools out there that wont require you to get a second mortgage or sell your first born.

But, these are just my opinions and we all got'em
 
So Tom Brown Jr. is an Indian fellow? I've never read his stuff and I've never taken a class from him, but I think that I know what he's trying to say. Personally, I don't understand his need to charge such outrageous amounts, but he has his reasons and besides, it does seem to be the American way these days, doesn't it?

It's a good thing that he tries to teach others how to be aware of what's happening to the Earth, to respect the Earth and that all things that GOD creates has spirit. But to be honest, very few will actually get it because they are taught from a very early age that they have dominion over all things, which to many of them means use it up till it's gone, we can find a replacement. Sorry, that's just not good stewardship and it isn't true. It's their way of justifying their greed. Whether you believe that all things have spirit or not doesn't matter. We need to care for the Earth in order for her to continue to take care of us. All things here are connected physically and spiritually to each other and as we poison and destroy them, we also poison and destroy ourselves. This is common sense stuff. It doesn't take a brain surgeon or rocket scientist to figure this out.

It amazes me that survivalists understand the rule of 3, but don't understand that in order for that rule to be satisfied, you need clean soil, clean water and clean air. These are the basics of life itself and without them, we cannot survive, no matter what our supposed training and skills are. The self serving greed and short sightedness of our society is the legacy and epitaph that we leave for our children's children. I just hope that we havn't killed their chances for life in our pursuit of self satisfaction, power and greed.
 
I don't know that anyone would question Tom Brown's abilities as an outdoorsman. However, keep in mind that Brown is not training people for hardcore wilderness emergencies of the sort that expedition leaders and international adventurers are concerned with. For that kind of thing, there are specialists like Lofty Wiseman, Peter Kummerfeldt, Ged Lawless of the UK Survival School, and the LTR ("Learn-to-Return") group, among many others. Ron Hood is able to teach the full continuum from emergency survival through primitive camping through the lithic arts and crafts. I don't know much about Chris Janowsky but he sounds like a real wilderness bad-ass.

I believe Brown is teaching his brand of Native American spiritualism (not that the Native Americans were necessarily great conservationists, by the way) with a primitive camping and crafts theme as his delivery vehicle. There is a lot of "lifestyle marketing" involved. Some of the more extreme mystic claims will tend to attract those who are looking for that kind of thing and will totally alienate others. I will say that I believe most of those here probably tend towards the "conservationist hunter" type mindset (I know that I certainly do), so we probably have many points of agreement with Brown's overall thesis even if we do not subscribe to his particular doctrine.

IMHO, his courses have about the same relationship to the immediate requirements of a life-threatening wilderness emergency as, say, Aikido has to the immediate requirements of a serious streetfight. There is some relationship, obviously, but it is indirect. How much that indirect skills transfer will cost you will depend on the severity of the situation and how quickly you were thrown into it.

On a more abstract note, I think that self-reliance includes the ability to think critically and to derive power from one's own philosophical studies (rather than wholesale adoption of a "turn-key" philosophy that someone else has derived). To me, Brown's books cannot possibly be meant to be taken literally. I figured that they were more in the vein of a Carlos Castaneda style. The depiction of certain incredibly improbable events as historical fact has been the source of my (from a reader's standpoint) single biggest problem with Brown---to me, the books are as self-indulgent, condescending, and ego-driven as Heckler's "In Search of The Warrior Spirit."

This all probably sounded like a bunch of cheap shots at Tom Brown. That's not what it was meant to be---big talk is easy and it takes no effort or worthiness for an Internet poster to criticize someone else's hard work. So take what I am saying with a grain of salt and compare it to your own experience with the Brown's stuff. You may totally disagree with me and you may well be right!
 
Thank you, Declan, for such a wonderful link. I also think the same as you about this lad Tom.
Surely his books (I have read a couple) make sense, but that doesn´t mean he is the last apache or that he can dissapear for ONE YEAR half naked with his mother waiting for him for dinner (I read that in an interview of him and Mr. Larry Olsen). I will not call someone a bloody liar without being face to face with him, but I would call him something pretty close if I knew the word.
Also I think he had a very bad attitude with the tracker knife thing, but that is just a personal feeling.
Oh, and by the way, ghosts don´t whisper either (The Science and Art of Tracking)...
 
"1. I have read several of his books, lectures and so forth and I dont know if anyone else has noticed but in detail, there seem to be some discrepancies in the timeline of his story from book to book."

That is intentional, to protect the Lipan Apache. Also some of his survival books intentionally leave certain things out, for you to figure out, like the debris hut, it has no door or tunnel.


"Also I think he had a very bad attitude with the tracker knife thing,"

I'm not sure what you are talking about, the TOPS knife and the Beck knife?
 
I bought one of his books and couldn't finish reading it. It seemed fake, like made up or something. After reading about how he killed his first deer by stabbing it and choking it to death I thought "this is too much".
 
Yes, I am refering to the Becker thing. I believe that if you look around a bit it's not too difficult to get an idea of what this guy tom is after.
Again, I am not going to say any more because it involves a third party, and that is none of my business.
 
What's the deal with the Tracker knife thing?

Tom Brown has his tracker from the movie "the hunted."

David Beck has his custom made "Wilderness Survival Knife." David Beck advertizes "As seen in the newly released Paramount Pictures film
"The Hunted" starring Tommy Lee Jones & Benicio Del Toro"

In the "History" behind the knife, Beck seems to claim that it is his design. See website: http://www.beckknives.com/Feedback_Form.html

on Tom Browns site, Brown seems to claim authorship: "Tom Brown, Jr has spent many years field testing and painstakingly designing this knife." See Site: http://www.trackerschool.com/AboutTrackKnife.htm

So...what's goin' on here. There has got to be a story behind this. It looks like someone is lying...

So can anyone help me out here, and tell me what's up with this issue?

anyone...anyone...?

PAUL
 
Paul, way back about 10 yrs ago, I guess, Dave Beck came out with the Wilderness Survival Knife. I think it was either Tactical Knives or Fighting Knives that did an article about it, anyway at that time it was said that it was a collaboration between the 2 men. The movie brought the knife to the forefront again and supposedly the character played by TLJ is based TB Jr.
 
Ahh....now since have Beck and Brown had a falling out?

btw...I know that TLJ character was based off Tom Brown Jr., which I think is pretty cool!
 
Tom Brown has his tracker from the movie "the hunted."
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Tom reaction to this film tells me all that I need to know about him. It is a lousy movie, that has nothing to do with survival, or tracking. But, given a choice between integrity and money; Tom chose the latter and promoted the film and his (Beck's) tracker knife. So much for integrity, and so much for Tom; Next.

n2s
 
Originally posted by not2sharp
Tom reaction to this film tells me all that I need to know about him. It is a lousy movie, that has nothing to do with survival, or tracking. But, given a choice between integrity and money; Tom chose the latter and promoted the film and his (Beck's) tracker knife. So much for integrity, and so much for Tom; Next.

n2s
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I don't know, man. You seem to be treating the issue too harshly. I don't know Tom Brown outside of his books, so I don't really know what to think about him. But I don't fault him for being a technical advisor for the film. The film being "lousy" as a matter of opinion doesn't have anything to do with Tom Brown; more-so with the directing and writing. I don't see his choice to do that movie as a choice of money over interity. It got him some main stream exposure, so people watching the film, or watching the "extra's" on the DVD as I did (I figured the movie would be a 'renter' so I rented it as opposed to watching it at the theater), and they learn a bit about him. Then maybe they decide to get online, or whatever, and then they learn about his tracker school, his books, his (the) knife, etc.

I don't see this as such a bad thing. He seems to be trying to teach a lifestyle, awareness, and even a spirituality rather then just survival skills. Doing a movie and getting his name into a mainstream audience might get his message out to more people. I don't see this as a bad thing. I think more people need to be aware of what's around them, and their environment; maybe then people will start seeking out a better way of living where they aren't destroying it.

Also, I have friends of friends in the Filipino Martial Arts world who know the Sayok Kali guys who were also technical advisors for the film. I don't think that the sold out either; and whether the film was liked or not, it gave their art and Filipino Martial Arts in general some exposure. Is this selling out, or a bad thing? I don't think so.

Well, I'll come down off my soapbox here to say that I am not a Tom Brown "groupie" either. I have never met him or done any of his workshops. I have read some of his books, however, but that's only because I like reading wilderness survival books. I think that his methods work, and I like his overall message. I am not sure about the spirituality part, but I don't mind it. I just don't know if he is the real deal, or a pile of B.S.. I can't make the determination either way because I don't have enough info. That's why I am paying attention to this thread, as well as the information around me to help me determine the issue.

So, if Tom Brown is a clown, no problem. I would like to know if he is because I have been debating a wilderness survival school for sometime, and I don't want to blow the doe on his if he is a clown. But if he is, I would definatily like to know why. I don't think he "sold out" by doing that movie, unless there is more to it then what I am seeing on the surface.

Cheers,

PAUL
:cool:
 
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