What glue do you use for pinless handles?

arksknives

arksknives

Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
542
Hi,
I was curious as to what glue you use on your knife handles that don't have pins? I use Loctite 330 but was wondering if there was anything better? Any help would be appreciated.:)
Thanks,
arksknives
 
I can't imagine making a pinless handle. :eek:

Hidden pins yes, but I wouldn't have much faith in pinless nomatter what adhesive I was using.

If, for some reason, I had to, I guess I would opt for a slow curing - well respected epoxy and at least create some "glue pins".

Rob!
 
hey,ive only made a few pinless handle type knives ,i use loctite 430,i mislined the handles once and had to beat the heck outta it with a hammer to get it off

Dale
 
A pinless handle is like a braless 20 year old. It may look great for a while, but it will be a let down eventually.
Stacy
 
Yeah, stacy, but it will take a LONG time for them to droop....lol. Bill Moran made a fair number of pinless handles.
 
bladsmth said:
A pinless handle is like a braless 20 year old. It may look great for a while, but it will be a let down eventually.
Stacy
Click to expand...

Great Stacy...now I'm going to think about this all day.:eek: :rolleyes:
 
bladsmth said:
You'd be surprised at how well Bill could hide a pin.
Stacy
Click to expand...
I know, but there are more han a few of his smaller knives with no visible pin AND no wire inlay to hide even the smallest pin. I see a lot of his bigger "hard use" use knives usinga through tangwith a nut or butcap or all of the above.
 
There are industrial film adhesives (double sided tape) that will permanently bond a scale in place. Do some research on Google. I also think that McMaster-Carr sells ultra thin, industrial tape. I would trust it much more that any two part or super glue.

Bill Cunningham
Atlanta
 
I would have absolutely no faith in a pin less handle relying on only glue to hold it all together. Knives are are put under alot of stress. The mechanical stress caused by the hand just working the knife creates all kinds of stresses upward, downward, lateral, as well as the shock from light chopping etc. Then there are the thermal stresses caused when the knife is in your warm hand and the blade is in the cold air of fall or winter combined with moisture. Some moisture from things like blood, soapy water, foods etc will work away at the bond. At some point in time the scales will come loose.

It doesn't take much effort to drill a hole and peen in some pinstock, and a handle that lacks retention hardware such as pins or rivets looks incomplete.
 
I try not to do any pinless handles. That being said, I used Loctite 330 on all my handles for a number of years. A few years ago, Eugene Shadley said he had changed to Loctite 326 with 7649 activator/primer. I like it better as well..a little thiner than 330, but still sets up pretty rapidly.
Have not had a handle slab come off using 326, even after removing the pins, without a serious effort to remove them....if I did need to remove the handle, most of the time that was necessary, the handle slab broke rather than the glue letting loose.
 
bilinghm said:
There are industrial film adhesives (double sided tape) that will permanently bond a scale in place. Do some research on Google. I also think that McMaster-Carr sells ultra thin, industrial tape. I would trust it much more that any two part or super glue.

Bill Cunningham
Atlanta
Click to expand...

Right now, I think pins are essential. HOWEVER:
Just last week a machinist friend was telling me of this thin-film "tape" that seems indestructible.

He was referring to 3M VHB. It's a very thin double-stick foam (something like .003). The 'foam' is actually the acrylic adhesive all the way through.

They boast it is for replacing fasteners and tout the fact that it's used for suspending the glass ceiling at a famous airport, for example.

They're sending me a sample, and I plan to see for myself.
 
bladsmth said:
A pinless handle is like a braless 20 year old. It may look great for a while, but it will be a let down eventually.
Stacy
Click to expand...

yeah bladesmth thats true but hopefuly by the time she does let you down you found another 20 yr old that does the same thing :D :D
being 22 myself hopefuly i got a few braless 20 yr olds to go
 
I am no bladesmith, but work a fair amount with epoxies. I would say best to ask the experts. Meaning its probably best to call directly Loctite, Smooth-On and Corning and see what they recommend and at what quantities they are willing to sell (often a big obstacle, because some epoxies are near impossible to get in smaller quantities than a gallon or so and it gets expensive). They have representatives that will help you choose the right epoxy for your application.

One of my all time favorite epoxies is Smooth-On MT-13. It is not overly hard (in comparison to some other epoxies, but retains a minute amount of flexibility which helps to absorb shock. It is also completely impervious to cold temperatures (in fact it is used for the helium cooled magnets in Brookhaven) and I have used it myself down to liquid nitrogen temperatures. It seems also quite popular with the archery and bow-making crowed. MT-13 is white in color. For all epoxies surface preparation is absolute paramount. Make sure that the to be bonded surfaces are somewhat roughened and absolute fat/oil and moisture free. If necessary use alcohol and aceton (make sure the parts can handle the solvents) and wear gloves when handling the pieces (wood is porous enough that it is very easy to epoxy). Modern epoxies that are selected for the right application age very little even under harsh conditions (saltwater, acids, UV etc) and their bond should be stronger than most handle materials.

If you don't trust "glue" consider this: A tooth inlay is only glued (it is not an epoxy but rather a form of vicous "cement" that retains some vicosity) and it withstands enormous pressures every day for a combined time of probably more than an hour. And a good inlay should last for years in an acidic environment chock-full of enzyms aggressive enough to desolve chewing gum. No pins needed.
 
;) Hi arksknives , There was recently a very good thread about adhesives,rather long but very informative http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=437760 we ended up talking quite a bit about loctite 324,325 & 326 . I have been using 325 and have been very happy with the results. Tracy Mickley (BF member and knifemaker extraordinaire) is supposed to be a dealer for loctite tracy@mickleyknives.com and will help you out with details when it comes to questions you might have about the adhesive. That being said, what type of material are you thinking about going pinless with ? The reason I ask is that quite a few materials now offer pins made out of the same.Such as micarta,to give the "look" of pinless without the potential problems that might arise. Stacy , great analogy !! Like Kerry stated, I'll be thinking about "perkyness" for the rest of the day too ;)
 
Ladies and gentlemen,

At his forum, Mike Stewart of Bark River says that in the modern era, pins are decoration and that it is the glue that keeps scales on. He recommends Devcon 5 minute epoxy.

No matter what you think of Bark River, I have not heard customers complaining that Bark River scales or hidden tang handles fall off.

See it here, in a thread called "Pins on Knife Scales"...

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/776358/hl/glue|pins/tp/1/

Steve
 
JCaswell said:
Right now, I think pins are essential. HOWEVER:
Just last week a machinist friend was telling me of this thin-film "tape" that seems indestructible.

He was referring to 3M VHB. It's a very thin double-stick foam (something like .003). The 'foam' is actually the acrylic adhesive all the way through.

They boast it is for replacing fasteners and tout the fact that it's used for suspending the glass ceiling at a famous airport, for example.

They're sending me a sample, and I plan to see for myself.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think CRK uses that to hold their scales on the folders and say the scales will break before the bond.
 
This last post brings up the problem. Lateral stress. The glue joint is very strong perpendicular to its plane. Parallel to the glue joint it can be sheared by a sudden force (such as dropping on the floor). Often the glue is not what fails but a micro thin layer of the scale material. The pins and hidden pins ( I believe Bill sometimes used hidden pins) will strengthen against lateral shearing.I agree that modern adhesives make riveting unnecessary, but IMHO pins of some kind are still advisable on using knives.
Stacy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top